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Author Topic: What's the view on equality?  (Read 27720 times)

HeartShadow

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What's the view on equality?
« on: March 01, 2015, 07:41:18 pm »
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?

***

FlameKeeping is about radical equality.  The goal is that everyone gets the chance to find and use their strengths and work together for the betterment of everyone.

Obviously, this is a goal.  I do not expect utopia, even though it's a work-towards - we're human.  We need a goal, but we also need to recognize that we're carrying the stick the carrot's attached to.  There's always more, always better.

And equality does not mean by removing differences, but by enhancing them.  That each of us can use our strengths and buttress each other's weaknesses.  Uniformity would be the enemy, because uniformity means we cannot grow, cannot change.  Cannot experiment and adapt.  It is in our differences that we have individuality, and without individuality we cannot choose community.

Who we are is important.  Who we can become is what we discover together.

Sage

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 07:52:31 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?


All of my current religious paths - Unitarian Universalism, Brigidine devotionalism through Clann Bhride, and my participation in the Otherfaith - hold equality, consent, and justice as high values.

Brighid is a goddess who values (among other things) hospitality. For me, fighting for justice and equality is a way of enacting hospitality on a societal scale. There are many Brig figures in Celtic lore and place names, including Brig Ambue (Brig of the Cowless Ones) who performed a sort of restorative justice on those committing cattle raids to feed their family. These individuals were re-integrated into their communities rather than cast out or seen as unworthy. To me, Brig Ambue is someone I emulate.

The Otherfaith has consent and the respect of personhood as a core belief, and also shares the value of hospitality.

And in the UU church, not being involved in some cause for equality is likely to put you in the minority of attendees. We affirm "the inherent worth and dignity of every human being" and try to make the world reflect that as best we can.
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 08:17:02 pm »
Quote from: Sage;172063
We affirm "the inherent worth and dignity of every human being" and try to make the world reflect that as best we can.

 
This. Very much this. Everyone is an individual, with worth and dignity and strengths and weaknesses. Part of it is also that because of this, respect is huge. Respect and reverence, and whether that be a nod at the cycle of things that have to die to keep us alive or the refusal to consciously harm another human being that has not harmed us. (which brings up fuzzies about choice and jeez I should think about that a bit more).

It is also an acknowledgement of personal sovereignty. Because I have worth and dignity, I am worthy of just treatment. I am allowed to say no if I am being asked to do something that hurts me. And I am allowed to fight back if I am attacked.
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

EJay

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 04:53:05 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059


And equality does not mean by removing differences, but by enhancing them.  That each of us can use our strengths and buttress each other's weaknesses.  Uniformity would be the enemy, because uniformity means we cannot grow, cannot change.  Cannot experiment and adapt.  It is in our differences that we have individuality, and without individuality we cannot choose community.


 
You caught in right there.  Equality, to me, means beings equally strong and adept in our abilities, not in possessing the same abilities.  To recognize that being adept in different skill sets is equally important.  You're absolutely right.  It's not uniformity, but being aware of the importance of differences.
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 11:18:48 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?

***

FlameKeeping is about radical equality.  The goal is that everyone gets the chance to find and use their strengths and work together for the betterment of everyone.

Obviously, this is a goal.  I do not expect utopia, even though it's a work-towards - we're human.  We need a goal, but we also need to recognize that we're carrying the stick the carrot's attached to.  There's always more, always better.

And equality does not mean by removing differences, but by enhancing them.  That each of us can use our strengths and buttress each other's weaknesses.  Uniformity would be the enemy, because uniformity means we cannot grow, cannot change.  Cannot experiment and adapt.  It is in our differences that we have individuality, and without individuality we cannot choose community.

Who we are is important.  Who we can become is what we discover together.

 
I believe that all people should have equal rights, regardless of faith, race, sex, sexuality etc.
I also believe that animals should be treated as equals because at the end of the day they are still living things same as you and I. I am a big supporter of fighting animal abuse and i do voluntary work at an animal sanctuary.

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 11:47:29 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?


I believe that equality should be a fundamental part of existence. Not only in that individual strengths should be nurtured, but that a society should also make the necessary accommodations to make that possible. When individual value is treated equally, the accumulative result is greater for all.
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 12:13:46 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?

***

FlameKeeping is about radical equality.  The goal is that everyone gets the chance to find and use their strengths and work together for the betterment of everyone.

Obviously, this is a goal.  I do not expect utopia, even though it's a work-towards - we're human.  We need a goal, but we also need to recognize that we're carrying the stick the carrot's attached to.  There's always more, always better.

And equality does not mean by removing differences, but by enhancing them.  That each of us can use our strengths and buttress each other's weaknesses.  Uniformity would be the enemy, because uniformity means we cannot grow, cannot change.  Cannot experiment and adapt.  It is in our differences that we have individuality, and without individuality we cannot choose community.

Who we are is important.  Who we can become is what we discover together.

 
I prefer to talk about *justice*, rather than equality. I think we all have fundamental human rights that make us equal on a philosophical level. That doesn't mean we all have justice, though. We live in an unjust society (according to my beliefs at least), and efforts are needed to redress the balance. It's easy to talk the equality talk without walking the justice walk. Equality is passive - justice is active.

This is religious, for me - but it's also just good sense. There's at least some research that suggests that more equal and just societies do better economically, socially, and in terms of reaching higher levels of happiness all round.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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Jabberwocky

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 02:29:01 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?


My path is very much magical rather then religious, which obviously gives me something of a different take on this.

But it's integral to it.  I incorporate bits of situationism to quite a strong level.  I'm influenced by the English Civil War Dissenters tradition (especially the Ranters and the Quakers and I'm currently trying to research the Muggletonians) and mythlogical English folk heroes like Robin Hood and General Ludd.  The mythical concept of the Norman Yoke is definitely in there.  As is a lot of stuff taken from other forms of media (the Illuminatus Trilogy, Paradise Lost and Don Quixote, the Phonogram and Hellblazer comics, various anarchist/libertarian socialist writers and way too many songs to mention)  Plus the obvious chaos magic background and some Discordianism.

So yeah, my entire path is very tied in to a specifically English tradition of Radicalism and equality is a strong part of that.

But that's not really a surprise.  Unlike some people, I very much choose my path, it didn't choose me.  And it's self-created, so it's only natural that it's been made to fit my belief structure, not vice versa.  I've identified as a libertarian socialist since I was sixteen.  I only started looking into the occult in my late twenties.

Quote
Obviously, this is a goal.  I do not expect utopia, even though it's a work-towards - we're human.  We need a goal, but we also need to recognize that we're carrying the stick the carrot's attached to.  There's always more, always better.


Yeah, that's crucial I think.  Striving for a free society is important.  Because even if you don't achieve it, you hopefully might still make your society just that little bit freer.

The anarchist cartoonist Donald Rooum has a nice cartoon on this theme.  (Linked because I can't remember how to resize images and its too big!)

Quote
And equality does not mean by removing differences, but by enhancing them.  That each of us can use our strengths and buttress each other's weaknesses.  Uniformity would be the enemy, because uniformity means we cannot grow, cannot change.  Cannot experiment and adapt.  It is in our differences that we have individuality, and without individuality we cannot choose community.


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

"On the first day of a revolution, he is a perfect treasure; on the second, he ought to be shot."- Marc Caussidière, Préfecture de Police for the provisional government in the 1848 French Revolution talking about Bakunin.

(I love that juxtaposition of quotes so much).
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 02:53:43 pm »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;172167
The anarchist cartoonist Donald Rooum has a nice cartoon on this theme.  (Linked because I can't remember how to resize images and its too big!)

 
'You don't have permission to access /spunk/library/cartoons/wildcat/sp000585.gif on this server.'

:(

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 02:55:11 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;172175
'You don't have permission to access /spunk/library/cartoons/wildcat/sp000585.gif on this server.'

:(

Sunflower

That's weird.

Try a direct link?  http://www.j12.org/spunk/library/cartoons/wildcat/sp000585.gif

Even stranger, the original clickable link is working for me fine?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 02:56:05 pm by Jabberwocky »
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 07:30:16 pm »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;172177
That's weird.

Try a direct link?  http://www.j12.org/spunk/library/cartoons/wildcat/sp000585.gif

Even stranger, the original clickable link is working for me fine?

 
Same result, alas. I might try going up the levels, but I'm a mite busy juggling grenades just now.

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 07:45:06 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?


Nothing. Deeply embedded in my religious views is the fact that we're all different, and that fact is considered among the things (if not THE thing) to be most highly valued. But I don't think there's anything explicit about equality in there.

The high value I place on equality comes from my secular morality and the experience of being American, with its ideal of equality vs the lived experience of how we've fallen short so many times.
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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 07:57:41 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?

Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?

 
I'm in the middle of a very individual religious path creation, so at this time, personal is religion-wide. :)

Yesterday I was doing an activity during a training that asked participants to identify two core values. Mine were equality and honesty, in that order. And while it hadn't occurred to me to make this a fundamental tenet of my personal path, I'm glad that you started this discussion. Because it should be.

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 12:37:53 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;172210
Same result, alas. I might try going up the levels, but I'm a mite busy juggling grenades just now.

 
Aaaand, it magically turned up on my 'top sites' screen, working just fine. I thought, 'Why is there a cartoon here? I haven't looked at any cart...oh. That must be the cartoon I specifically haven't looked at!'

The Internet, it is weird.

Now that I have: yes. That.

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Re: What's the view on equality?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 05:12:12 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;172059
What does your personal path say about equality?  Is it a goal?  A danger?  What does equality look like?  Is it a religion-wide goal, or more personal?

 
My path, being framed mostly around Hellenistic and Roman reconstructions, would appear to promote social and cultural values of justice and fairness. Does this mean 'equality'? It doesn't explicitly have to. What is just and fair might depend on social relationships and hierarchies, which vary from culture to culture. Now, in modern times and in Western culture, I think that justice does include equal treatment and equal opportunity.

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