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Author Topic: true names/ secret names  (Read 1632 times)

Frostfire

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true names/ secret names
« on: November 08, 2012, 03:08:23 pm »
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?

Zaphaux

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 04:34:47 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?

 I don't believe that names changes the thrill of one's life, because as you can see there can be two completely different people with a completely different lifeline but they both have the same name. When you look at someone and attribute them a name without mandatorily knowing it, in your subconscious this person is physically or personally reminding you of someone else that have that name - maybe by a coincidence you can be right, unless you were enlightened haha

 Zaphaux is my "sur-magickal-name", that I chose back when I was still wandering on Wicca ways using numerology in balance with my birthdate - I liked the sonority of this name. After Apollo have shown his presence to me, I could finally choose my first magickal name that comes before Zaphaux, and at the time I chose it I had been already trying to figure out one for a little time.

 Both names I chose using numerology, and the first one I chose based on my favourite animal that's related to Apollo (also using numerology), so I would recommend to you do the same, cause it will be in a perfect balance or relation with the moment you came to the world, a very important and vital moment in your life, and I believe this can make the name even more connected to your soul. In other words, even more powerful, maybe.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 04:38:11 pm by Zaphaux »

Maps

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 06:07:59 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?

 
When it comes to my gods, names are simultaneously all-important and completely unimportant. Names an effects define who they are in their entirety-- deviate from those established things, and you're talking about a different entity. Such is the nature of what they are: their existence is as fleeting as that which they represent/have dominion over. So from that perspective, secret names have no extra power, nor is there any sense to have them to begin with, really.

As for me personally, "names"--labels and identities--are also simultaneously all-important and non. They're important because differentiating myself from the norm and defining myself by what I am not is part of the process of self-realization and embracing who I really am. There will likely come a day where they are longer important to me, but that's a long ways away and right now they are vital to my sense of self.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 07:02:14 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?

 
I don't think naming something is the same as finding out its true name.  Giving a name can emphasize the part of it you wish to address or align yourself with, and can work magically, but it doesn't really give you any knowledge of the thing itself.  It becomes like using a light switch without understanding electricity.  Perfectly fine either way, but don't confuse the one for the other.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

Siren

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 07:49:22 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?


I've had a couple of magical names, and currently don't have one. I feel like all of the past ones kind of fit me and kind of don't. None of them are quite right anymore. If another one comes to me, so be it, but if it doesn't, my given name is doing fine for now.

I did once give myself a magical name and then find myself in a position where I needed to fulfill it. It's a name that comes from a story, and in that story, this character refuses to suck up to an authority figure and suffers for it. I chose the name for reasons that didn't have much to do with that part of the story. And then a few years later, found myself having to choose between comfortable inertia and, you guessed it, following my conscience by defying an authority figure. It led to my having to start over spiritually in a lot of ways, and it was a big mess for a while. I've sometimes wondered if picking that name had anything to do with my ending up in that situation. And I dropped the name after that, not because I felt it was bad luck or anything, but because I felt like I'd fulfilled the purpose of that name and been changed by it.

Shine

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 08:52:22 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?

 
Well, in Kemetic theology, "naming", or at least calling, one thing something else can lend power or at least ritual meaning. For example, I believe wine was sometimes called the "Green Eye of Heru".

I don't practice magic in the witchcraft/magician/etc sense of the word, but I'll call myself "fire", "water", and various other things to align myself with those powers. In ritual, I might identify as a deity by calling myself that deity's name and "wearing the god hat".

People grow into names, I think, although I don't see why the name can't grow into the person (different matter with deities, since there generally some kind of linguistic connection between the name and the nature of the deity in question). Especially with names we give ourselves, we bring out our wishes into a "named" form and, in wearing that form, hopefully draw those wishes to ourselves. Ugh, I hope that made sense. It makes sense in my head. . .

I have a full Kemetic name I've given myself. It's not magical, but is intensely private.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Altair

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 11:04:16 pm »
Quote from: Shine;80146
Well, in Kemetic theology, "naming", or at least calling, one thing something else can lend power or at least ritual meaning. For example, I believe wine was sometimes called the "Green Eye of Heru".

I don't practice magic in the witchcraft/magician/etc sense of the word, but I'll call myself "fire", "water", and various other things to align myself with those powers. In ritual, I might identify as a deity by calling myself that deity's name and "wearing the god hat".

[SNIP]

I have a full Kemetic name I've given myself. It's not magical, but is intensely private.


This is pretty much my way of thinking, right down to not being a magic practitioner and yet having a full pagan name that is intensely private. "Altair" is the public part of that name; the rest is neither to be spoken or written down.

I believe in the power of words. (No shock, since I'm a writer.) Language is central to our species and shapes the way we think, and our thoughts in turn shape reality. So I find myself naming things all the time.

I've been learning the scientific names of the birds I hold dear, and it's like learning a secret language, gaining a deeper insight into organisms--even though scientific nomenclature is a human contrivance, an attempt to impose order on the riot of life around us that defies simple categorization. And yet I find it useful and satisfying.

None of this should be confused with "true" names, however. I'm not sure such a thing exists; though, because we human beings find language so important, I'm sure that's why the idea is so alluring.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Zaphaux

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 08:32:14 am »
Quote from: Altair;80157
This is pretty much my way of thinking, right down to not being a magic practitioner and yet having a full pagan name that is intensely private. "Altair" is the public part of that name; the rest is neither to be spoken or written down.

I believe in the power of words. (No shock, since I'm a writer.) Language is central to our species and shapes the way we think, and our thoughts in turn shape reality. So I find myself naming things all the time.

I've been learning the scientific names of the birds I hold dear, and it's like learning a secret language, gaining a deeper insight into organisms--even though scientific nomenclature is a human contrivance, an attempt to impose order on the riot of life around us that defies simple categorization. And yet I find it useful and satisfying.

None of this should be confused with "true" names, however. I'm not sure such a thing exists; though, because we human beings find language so important, I'm sure that's why the idea is so alluring.


 I chose a 'magickal' name because I wouldn't feel confortable being called my formal name nor would I feel it's right being referenced by a common nickname, too informal. So I decided to choose a magickal name that would have a basis, so it wouldn't be really random (using numerology).
 
 As you, Altair, I also do not say my complete name publicaly, because, like you, I believe in the power of words (or names), so I would feel 'in danger' to publicaly say this complete name.

Frostfire

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 12:05:40 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;80140
I don't think naming something is the same as finding out its true name.  Giving a name can emphasize the part of it you wish to address or align yourself with, and can work magically, but it doesn't really give you any knowledge of the thing itself.  It becomes like using a light switch without understanding electricity.  Perfectly fine either way, but don't confuse the one for the other.

Absent

 
I think That is about where I am in the matter. I have tried concieving the "true name" of a thing, ( never tried with people, presumably if I can't get a simple item like a leaf or stone I can't grasp a more complex one either ). Each time I have tried I come to a name or phrase that I feel means something, but it is not a true name. Spoken aloud it may produce a "vibration", if you will, but it never Resonates the way I feel a true name would. So while I may come up with a name, word, or phrase that has some meaning or power it is not the truth of it. My friend suggested that my concious mind is can't express what my subconcious understands.

Frostfire

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 01:25:54 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;80180
I chose a 'magickal' name because I wouldn't feel confortable being called my formal name nor would I feel it's right being referenced by a common nickname, too informal. So I decided to choose a magickal name that would have a basis, so it wouldn't be really random (using numerology).
 
 .

 
I have a magical name that I call myself and in my group I answer to a name that was given to me by the group. Each of these I feel represents a different aspect or facet of my person or nature, I also don't share these names lightly.

Maps

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 01:29:08 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;80140
I don't think naming something is the same as finding out its true name.  Giving a name can emphasize the part of it you wish to address or align yourself with, and can work magically, but it doesn't really give you any knowledge of the thing itself.  It becomes like using a light switch without understanding electricity.  Perfectly fine either way, but don't confuse the one for the other.

Absent

 
Makes me wonder... is it possible to know a "true name" of something if you've never been that thing? Seems to me that the only thing we can know fully and have complete power over is ourselves.

Frostfire

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 01:29:28 pm »
Quote from: Altair;80157
This is pretty much my way of thinking, right down to not being a magic practitioner and yet having a full pagan name that is intensely private. "Altair" is the public part of that name; the rest is neither to be spoken or written down.

I believe in the power of words. (No shock, since I'm a writer.) Language is central to our species and shapes the way we think, and our thoughts in turn shape reality. So I find myself naming things all the time.

.

 
I read a book once on the power of words and in particular the written word. There was a quote inside that you reminded me of I can't recall it exactly but it was in essence: " The moving hand writes and having writ, moves on. Not all thy piety or wit shall lure it back to conceal even half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it."  It was in " write your own magic" if i remember correctly.

Frostfire

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 01:33:35 pm »
Quote from: Maps;80208
Makes me wonder... is it possible to know a "true name" of something if you've never been that thing? Seems to me that the only thing we can know fully and have complete power over is ourselves.

 
I'm not sure, I work on the belief that we are all connected and share the same spark, so for instance in trying to attain the true name of fire, some small part of me knows the flame and fire, understands it, shares its nature, it with that portion of my being that I would attempt to grasp the name of the fire in this scenario..

Granted I have failed at every attempt to date :o sooo it may be that is not enough. Its worth pondering on to me, to try to come closer to an understanding.

Holdasown

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2012, 01:41:10 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?
 How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?


I didn't name my athame, I asked for it's name and did a ritual around it. This is the only item I have named and I don't or haven't for myself or other objects. I did this as it's part of the Heathen tradition to do so. It's made a huge difference in how I interact with the knife.

Sharysa

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Re: true names/ secret names
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 04:10:25 pm »
Quote from: Frostfire;80116
I recently came across the concept of a true, or secret name. For years I have practiced "re-naming" things or sometimes even myself depending on what I am doing. Magically I believe this can be a powerful thing and I try to do it carefully. Does anyone else practice naming as a magical tool?

How do you feel about the nature of names? Do objects and or people change to fit the name or does the nature of the name mold to the object or person?


I don't explicitly name things for magickal purposes, but names are very important to me as an expression of how I perceive and connect to things. Back when I was Wiccan/Celtic-Wiccan, I used to call myself "Morrigan" after the goddess. It wasn't that I was literally calling myself the Morrigan to sound badass, it was my way of expressing that I'd accepted being chosen as one of her followers.

Then I "grew out of it" because it just stopped fitting, so I didn't have a secret/magickal name for the next few years. And I was okay with that, because I didn't really need one for what I was doing.

When I went to a drum circle a couple of months ago, I was listening to some of the group members introduce themselves, using both their given names and their "tribe" names. They aren't literally a tribe in the "officially recognized ethnic group" or "band of people led by a chief" sense, but they do conduct themselves in a manner that evokes the feel of a tribal community.

So I was introducing myself and wondering (jokingly) if I should call myself one of my favorite character's names. One of my ancestors laughed and whispered "No, honey, you're Albatross." The name rang when he said it, and then I remembered that I'd turned into an albatross in one of my meditations. A lot of the information on Albatross medicine resonates with me.

The medicine-woman confirmed that Albatross was my tribe-name/spirit-name, and now that I've been named by an ancestor, I have to find the balance between Physical-Me and Spirit-Me before I can officially be initiated as Albatross.

Which is kind of hard, since it's so much easier to be Albatross than my normal self. Still, figuring out the balance between my two selves is easier now than it was earlier this year.
On hiatus, but might pop in now and then. Just making it official.

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