Status changes view of deity?

[rous54]

Hello lovely people of eCauldron,

It's been a while.

I was wondering about a topic and wanted to ask your opinion on it.

How do you think different people reflect on their spirituality? More specifically, if a person is really down on his luck, has financial problems, has a difficult love life, is facing health problems, would this person still feel that God or Goddess is almighty and fair?  If a person is rich and has a great love life does this person view deity different in a sense that they see only the positive to a God or Goddess?

[ehbowen]

Hello lovely people of eCauldron,

It's been a while.

I was wondering about a topic and wanted to ask your opinion on it.

How do you think different people reflect on their spirituality? More specifically, if a person is really down on his luck, has financial problems, has a difficult love life, is facing health problems, would this person still feel that God or Goddess is almighty and fair?  If a person is rich and has a great love life does this person view deity different in a sense that they see only the positive to a God or Goddess?

Well, let's see. Obviously I can't speak in general for everyone, but I am 'a person'. So...

• Except for a seven-week temp job (under circumstances which clearly qualified as Divine Providence), I've been unemployed since early June with no good prospects on the horizon. Savings are gone and, while I still have food in the refrigerator and the utility bills are current, I don't know how I'm going to pay my property taxes due next month.
• I have now been praying to find the right girl for 35 years and have been waiting 25 years for a second date.
• I have out-of-control diabetes and currently experience ongoing painful neuropathy in the feet.

And I still feel that God is loving, kind, and intimately aware of my personal situation. Jesus advised us that, "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world (John 16:33b NKJV)." Paul stated that, "...I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us (Romans 8:18 NKJV)."

My praise to my God is based upon His nature, character, and being, not on what he's done for me lately. But I do have to say this: Although he has let me get into tight spots from time to time, He has never failed me yet. Never once. And I look to a future with more in store than just a solid bank account and a stable blood sugar level.

[rous54]

And I still feel that God is loving, kind, and intimately aware of my personal situation. Jesus advised us that, "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world (John 16:33b NKJV)."

This is so nice ehbowen.  I am glad that you find solace in God and I understand that you praise Him and not actions which really makes sense.

You never question God like how Job or Thomas did?

What do you think is meant by "I have overcome the world" in the quote above?

[Jenett]

How do you think different people reflect on their spirituality? More specifically, if a person is really down on his luck, has financial problems, has a difficult love life, is facing health problems, would this person still feel that God or Goddess is almighty and fair?  If a person is rich and has a great love life does this person view deity different in a sense that they see only the positive to a God or Goddess?

Well, I don't think most of my deities are almighty in the sense of all-powerful anyway. And I think some deities are more fair than others. That's part of being a polytheist for me: I have a range of different relationships and interactions with different deities, and those change over time (depending on what I'm focusing on) and how the interactions are going, much a relationships with humans in my life change (as I change jobs, have medical issues, move locations, change interests)

All of that said, I have a longstanding relationship with M'Lady, and it's seen me through good times and bad times. When I've had bad times, I've asked for her help, sometimes ranted, but I've always taken it as she has stuff she can help with and stuff that's harder for her to help with, and I've gotten *some* help.

On the other hand, the 'long dark night of the soul' is a thing in many religions, and there's a reason for that.

[ehbowen]

This is so nice ehbowen.  I am glad that you find solace in God and I understand that you praise Him and not actions which really makes sense.

You never question God like how Job or Thomas did?

What do you think is meant by "I have overcome the world" in the quote above?

I probably (read: almost certainly) would have if I had not had their examples to learn from. "The normal man learns from his own mistakes; the wise man learns from the mistakes of others; the fool never learns at all."

Now there have been many times when I have asked, "WHY?" But, at least In My Experience, it's possible to ask that question and be heartbroken by the lack of an (immediate!) answer without losing faith that God is ultimately good and that what is right shall eventually prevail. See also Jeremiah (Lamentations 3:22-24) and Job 13:15.

My God is not troubled by honest questions.

What do you think is meant by "I have overcome the world" in the quote above?

I believe that it means that what we see in this world...the pain, the injustice, etc....is ultimately short-lived and that in eternity to come God will indeed "restore the years the locusts have eaten (Joel 2:25)." We need to acknowledge and be aware of the temporary suffering around it, but keep our eyes fixed upon the eternal promise.

[rous54]

On the other hand, the 'long dark night of the soul' is a thing in many religions, and there's a reason for that.

Very understandable Jenett. Thank you.  I feel when a person is well off, it is easier to praise God or Goddess.  I go through some really difficult times and I just don't know what to say sometimes.  Goddess leaves me speechless.  I wonder if others feel the same.

[rous54]

I probably (read: almost certainly) would have if I had not had their examples to learn from. "The normal man learns from his own mistakes; the wise man learns from the mistakes of others; the fool never learns at all."

...

I believe that it means that what we see in this world...the pain, the injustice, etc....is ultimately short-lived and that in eternity to come God will indeed "restore the years the locusts have eaten (Joel 2:25)." We need to acknowledge and be aware of the temporary suffering around it, but keep our eyes fixed upon the eternal promise.

Don't you think that the first quote is so absolutely judgmental??? What are you talking about???

As for the second part, I would agree and pray that what I am going through is temporary, but I have seen way too much suffering to want to wait for another life to feel relieved and happy.

Btw, just for curiosity, are you a pagan christian?

[ehbowen]

Don't you think that the first quote is so absolutely judgmental??? What are you talking about???

As for the second part, I would agree and pray that what I am going through is temporary, but I have seen way too much suffering to want to wait for another life to feel relieved and happy.

Btw, just for curiosity, are you a pagan christian?

Don't you think that the first quote is so absolutely judgmental??? What are you talking about???

As for the second part, I would agree and pray that what I am going through is temporary, but I have seen way too much suffering to want to wait for another life to feel relieved and happy.

Btw, just for curiosity, are you a pagan christian?

The first quote isn't Biblical or religious or anything, it's just a saying. The point being that it's good if you can learn from the experience of others and avoid making the same mistakes that they made.

I don't think that the relief will come in "another life"; I believe that in my own flesh I shall see God. (Actually, I believe that I already have...but that's another story!)

No, I'm not pagan. I worship with a very conservative, even Fundamental congregation. But some of the experiences I've had have led me to some rather unique conclusions. I have had (largely good-natured) disputes with my own pastor. He doesn't agree with me...but I believe that we still respect each other.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[rous54]

No, I'm not pagan. I worship with a very conservative, even Fundamental congregation. But some of the experiences I've had have led me to some rather unique conclusions. I have had (largely good-natured) disputes with my own pastor. He doesn't agree with me...but I believe that we still respect each other.

But this is eCaulderon, we talk about Wicca and Pagan things, what's your interest here?

[ehbowen]

But this is eCaulderon, we talk about Wicca and Pagan things, what's your interest here?

Know any other places where you can talk about having a two hour date with the Spirit of Wisdom without people automatically calling you nuts?

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[IceAngie]

But this is eCaulderon, we talk about Wicca and Pagan things, what's your interest here?

And there's a folder called "Non-Pagan Religions and Interfaith Discussions".

[RandallS]

But this is eCaulderon, we talk about Wicca and Pagan things, what's your interest here?

The Cauldron is (and always has been) an interfaith board. Sure we come at it from a Pagan POV, but people of all religions (or no religion) are welcome here. In fact, anyone willing to follow the rules is welcome here.

[Sefiru]

Well, I don't think most of my deities are almighty in the sense of all-powerful anyway.

Seconded. Also, one of the first things that my deities communicated to me was that it is not their job to take care of me. Sure, I can and have asked for their help, and gotten it, but there isn't a divine guarantee that I'll be All Right.

Part of it, too, is that deities, like people, each have their areas of expertise. I mean, doctors and lawyers are both highly respected professions, but you don't go to your attorney for help with kidney stones.

[rous54]

Seconded. Also, one of the first things that my deities communicated to me was that it is not their job to take care of me. Sure, I can and have asked for their help, and gotten it, but there isn't a divine guarantee that I'll be All Right.

Part of it, too, is that deities, like people, each have their areas of expertise. I mean, doctors and lawyers are both highly respected professions, but you don't go to your attorney for help with kidney stones.

Thanks, but I am not quite sure how this relates to the topic.  Does one's status affect how one views deity?  Again I find myself asking why is this happening to me, and the adage that "God" is great (I live in a Muslim country so here God is Almighty, Great, All powerful, Omnipotent), I am finding it a little difficult to accept anymore because I am seeing greater forces than deity.  I feel that people who are well off will immediately praise God for their success, while I am not sure if the poor person would do the same.

[Hariti]

More specifically, if a person is really down on his luck, has financial problems, has a difficult love life, is facing health problems, would this person still feel that God or Goddess is almighty and fair? 

Can't speak for others, obviously, but that's actually when  I am *most* spiritual and when I have the most faith in the goodness of my deities. I rely on faith to get through tough situations, and so seeing my Gods as loving and kind is very beneficial to me in those times.