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Author Topic: Positive Generation  (Read 539 times)

Kura

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Positive Generation
« on: November 22, 2020, 02:25:17 pm »
Creation creates, its a positive force that generates. Creation is made of life and death and we are no different. We are made of creation. Creation is everything. As living being we generate, life does. We generate both positive and negative forces in every action we do with the exception of few neutral actions.  For example an upset man is wronged and so he sticks up for himself by saying you shouldn't do that because its hurting me and I'm your friend. He using different forces in his statement, a shouldn't which is negative force trying to alter his friends actions, a reason (" because it hurts me"), which is a positive attack on his friends actions, then another positive reason ("I'm your friend"). See the hurt man is using positive negative forces, to make life better, against truly negative action. I call positive negative the good death, and negative negative the bad death.

All living beings respond well to positive forces, for example loving support, and negatively to negative forces like fighting caused by hate, insults etc. It is natural for us to encourage positivity for ourselves and the people we love, just as it is natural for us to fight against the negative forces we hate.

As generates we have the capacity to generate positive force every moment, answering every problem with a solution, righting every wrong, and resolving every conflict internal or external. Not only that but we can bolster ourselves, fortify ourselves, and better ourselves by thinking positive of ourselves. Thinking we can as opposed to can't is an excellent way to generate ability, believing in ourselves and using our energies positively supporting not only ourselves but those around us.

I call it the good death because it uses negative force positively to end (kill) negative actions. (Wrong action)

So you see, as creators who generate and as creators made up of creation itself I feel the meaning, or purpose of life, is to create. Given the full scope of that means we can create the best lives imaginable just by being as positive as we can be all the time.

Aisling

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 04:32:49 pm »
Given the full scope of that means we can create the best lives imaginable just by being as positive as we can be all the time.
First, welcome to TC.

This advice might work for you at the moment, but I'd caution against making blanket statements about what "we" can do or how "we" should do it.  You'll find that blanket statements don't tend to go down well with the diverse group here.

Something to consider:  The assumption that positive thinking is the key to one's best life dismisses the real-life experiences of many people.  It is an ableist and problematic idea.

The "think positive" movement, on the whole, has ignored factors such as mood disorders, neurodiversity, and cognitive issues that affect the way people perceive and process the world.  Telling someone with who has depression to "think positive" is rather like telling a paraplegic to "get up and walk".  It dismisses the individual's experience and limitations.  It can also contribute to victim-blaming when life doesn't go well.

Attempting to think positive all the time can be damaging and toxic for most people.  It limits a person's experience and may keep them from processing difficult experiences fully.  If you haven't done so, it might be worth looking into toxic positivity for a better understanding of why it can be problematic.

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Kura

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 06:48:20 pm »
First, welcome to TC.

This advice might work for you at the moment, but I'd caution against making blanket statements about what "we" can do or how "we" should do it.  You'll find that blanket statements don't tend to go down well with the diverse group here.

Something to consider:  The assumption that positive thinking is the key to one's best life dismisses the real-life experiences of many people.  It is an ableist and problematic idea.

The "think positive" movement, on the whole, has ignored factors such as mood disorders, neurodiversity, and cognitive issues that affect the way people perceive and process the world.  Telling someone with who has depression to "think positive" is rather like telling a paraplegic to "get up and walk".  It dismisses the individual's experience and limitations.  It can also contribute to victim-blaming when life doesn't go well.

Attempting to think positive all the time can be damaging and toxic for most people.  It limits a person's experience and may keep them from processing difficult experiences fully.  If you haven't done so, it might be worth looking into toxic positivity for a better understanding of why it can be problematic.

I understand what you are saying about " should do's" for everyone but in this case I am speaking of truths.

Not just positive thinking but positive action. And you asked me to consider something but gave no real life example in which to consider.

You sound very against positivity for some reason. It really works, you should try it! Anyways thanks for the welcome!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 06:55:57 pm by Kura »

PerditaPickle

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2020, 06:58:09 pm »
And you asked me to consider something but gave no real life example in which to consider.

I feel like the examples came in the next paragraph.  And if you're around here on TC enough  you'll probably find many more which come up in conversation over time.

I'm currently a fan of the power of positive thinking, myself, but I recognise that what is true for me doesn't have to be true for someone else.  And both view points are valid.
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sevensons

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 06:59:38 pm »
Thinking we can as opposed to can't is an excellent way to generate ability, believing in ourselves and using our energies positively supporting not only ourselves but those around us.
I don't think your far from the right path just be open to many varieties.
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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 01:04:45 pm »
I understand what you are saying about " should do's" for everyone but in this case I am speaking of truths.

Not just positive thinking but positive action. And you asked me to consider something but gave no real life example in which to consider.

You sound very against positivity for some reason. It really works, you should try it! Anyways thanks for the welcome!

I feel like labeling things the 'truth' is just another way to say, "my way is the right way...because this is the truth!"  This is a very different thing from saying, "In my experience, this thing works for me, and I would highly recommend it."

On a very personal level, I don't find that straight up positivity (either positive thought or positive action) work for me.  Sometimes you just don't have a good choice...or the 'good' choice is letting bad people walk all over you or take advantage of people you care about.  Sometimes my mental state doesn't allow me to be positive, and trying to just think happy thoughts makes my state worse.

I have met way more people who claim to be positive people who use their perspective to put other people down ("I ONLY do good things, you could too...if you would just try!") or they use 'universal law' as a way to try to mask or deny the less positive things they do ("I'm cursing this person...but it's okay, they did a bad thing so I'm just helping Karma!!!!")

Thinking we can as opposed to can't is an excellent way to generate ability, believing in ourselves and using our energies positively supporting not only ourselves but those around us.

(snip)

Given the full scope of that means we can create the best lives imaginable just by being as positive as we can be all the time.

This right here is why I really dislike the whole positive thinking trend.  I do like positive thinking, I think that keeping a positive outlook is very helpful, expecting good things to happen definitely has great benefits to your life.

But this argument right here, that 'thinking we can...creates ability' and 'we can create the best lives imaginable JUST by being as positive as we can' are functional fallacies.  There are many things that we can effect by thinking positive, but there are also many things we can't effect.  I am not going to stop being anemic just because I think happy thoughts.

And I have seen, first hand, people tell chronically ill people that it's their own fault that they are sick...because if they really wanted to be well, they would have sent that energy out in the world and they wouldn't still be sick.  That is an utterly horrible thing to say to someone, especially in the name of 'positivity.'
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PerditaPickle

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2020, 01:57:30 pm »
I have seen, first hand, people tell chronically ill people that it's their own fault that they are sick...because if they really wanted to be well, they would have sent that energy out in the world and they wouldn't still be sick.

Oh if one could become well just from positive thinking I'd for sure be cured of my thyroiditis by now, and I'm not so ... yeah, it can only go so far.  Instead, for me it's more about helping me accept that chronic ill-health is how things are for me and making the best of that, rather than trying to live in denial (which I did for a number of years before realising that that was an unhelpful outlook).
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Anon100

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 04:28:35 pm »
Oh if one could become well just from positive thinking I'd for sure be cured of my thyroiditis by now, and I'm not so ... yeah, it can only go so far.  Instead, for me it's more about helping me accept that chronic ill-health is how things are for me and making the best of that, rather than trying to live in denial (which I did for a number of years before realising that that was an unhelpful outlook).

I've found the same ( although I'm lucky that using positivity to cope, for me, has only been to deal with life situations rather than permanent illness ).

I would add that, when I've felt the most broken or put down, the concept of there even being positive was alien. There are places/times ( inside ourselves ) when positive and negative fade into survival.

edit to add - So you can see that the idea of think positive can be totally useless in some situations ( and make people feel worse for feeling they can't do something ).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:33:43 pm by Anon100 »

Aisling

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 06:14:49 pm »


A Reminder:
Hi Kura and Anon100,

Our rules generally prohibit editing after more than 2-3 minutes. (Correcting typos or minor mistakes is OK.) This is because after that long, several people have already read what you've written, and they won't see the changes you make.  Because of that, they will have difficulty following the conversation when someone replies to your new, updated post.

If you need to correct or add anything significant after those 2-3 minutes, you should just reply to yourself and give the correction or additional information in the new post.  Double-posting is not considered bad behaviour here, and this will help keep everyone on the same page, so to speak.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder. No reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification, please feel free to contact a member of  staff privately.

Thanks!

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Sefiru

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2020, 07:19:50 pm »
It really works, you should try it!

If wishes were horses, poor men would ride.

(Which is to say that, in my experience, when someone *says* that positive thinking alone can change reality, they actually had a lot of resources at their disposal that they take for granted. This youtube video explains it fairly well:)


On a side note, this:

All living beings respond well to positive forces

is kind of circular logic, since we define what is 'positive' by what we respond well to.

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2020, 07:23:01 pm »
Sometimes my mental state doesn't allow me to be positive, and trying to just think happy thoughts makes my state worse.

I vaguely recall a study in which making people in depressed states listen to happy music made them feel worse, whereas listening to sad music made them feel better - I guess because it validated their emotions and/or made them feel less alone?

Aisling

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2020, 08:02:32 pm »
I understand what you are saying about " should do's" for everyone but in this case I am speaking of truths.

Not just positive thinking but positive action. And you asked me to consider something but gave no real life example in which to consider.

You sound very against positivity for some reason. It really works, you should try it! Anyways thanks for the welcome!

I am not against positivity.  It can be a useful and powerful tool.  Like all things, it has its limitations and, for most people, it's best used in moderation.  If attempting to be as positive as you can all the time works for you, that's great.  Keep on doing what works for you.  If that is a valid truth for you, then you're on the right path for you.

The trouble using with "truths" as a foundation for telling other people what they should do is that truths are subjective and not universally shared.  Your truth is valid for you.  Some may embrace your truth and others will find your truths to be in direct contradiction to theirs.  And that's all good.

Sharing your truth with others is fine.  The point at which  it becomes problematic is when you assume that everyone should model their actions on your truth. 

To go back to my early example: would you tell an individual who is paraplegic that they should "go for walk" because going for a daily walk is how you live your best life? I'm guessing that you would not because doing so would a) be incredibly rude and hurtful  and b) dismiss their reality and circumstances as less valid than your own.

Yet, there is a pattern within the positivity movement of doing things that equally dismissive and harmful. Your words below are a good example of how this plays out. I've voiced concerns that your truth isn't universal and may be harmful to some. Your response made assumptions about my reality and  continued to push your truth as the valid one for me.

You sound very against positivity for some reason. It really works, you should try it!


I also want to address this:
And you asked me to consider something but gave no real life example in which to consider.

Allow me to remedy that with three examples below the spoiler tag of how pushing positivity can be hurtful to others.

Content note: Depression, cancer, and terminal illness

Spoiler:  

First, from someone speaking about their depression and their ex-wife's response to that depression (shared with permission from both of them):
"I had a constant stream of verbal abuse running through my head, but instead of my father's voice, it was in my own voice saying these awful things. She couldn't wrap her a head around it and would tell me I need to be more positive. I tried, really tried, but when you are [depressed], the abuser in your head fights anything positive. Tells you not to bother because you'll fail, you can't, and if you could, you don't deserve any form of happiness. She'd tell me I wasn't trying hard enough.  Like it's my fault and the abuser in my head would agree with her. I'd spiral further into depression trying to appease her.  She couldn't understand that every time she told me to be more positive, it made things so much worse."

Second, from a friend who was dealing with a terminal illness (shared with permission from his next of kin):
"I've been told to cheer up, look on the bright side, think positive, and a dozen other variations on that worn-out theme. As if slapping on a smiley face will change the prognosis.  As if I can smile away this disease. As if a positive attitude can magically ensure I live long enough to meet my unborn child. Dealing with the demands to be optimistic is draining, and I am so tired of it."

Finally, from my own experiences in dealing with cancer:
Someone actually said to me that cancer was caused by negative thinking and that if I'd been more positive, I would be still be  healthy.  Another person told me that if I accepted that there might be a bad outcome, I would "probably die" because I "let the disease win by entertaining those dark thoughts." 

There was also an entire chorus of people reminding me to look on the bright side and to think only about the positive outcomes.  And yes, I tried that. It made every set-back that much harder to accept because I hadn't given myself the mental space to process the possibility of things going wrong.  Accepting and being prepared for the full spectrum of possible outcomes helped me live my best life during that time.



So... am I against positivity? Not at all.  Am I against toxic positivity, including your insistence that everyone should try to be as positive as they can all the time?  Absolutely, because I've seen the harm this kind of positivity can cause.
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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2020, 01:30:02 am »
The "think positive" movement, on the whole, has ignored factors such as mood disorders, neurodiversity, and cognitive issues that affect the way people perceive and process the world.  Telling someone with who has depression to "think positive" is rather like telling a paraplegic to "get up and walk".  It dismisses the individual's experience and limitations.  It can also contribute to victim-blaming when life doesn't go well.

I also can't help but remember that the The Power of Positive Thinking guy, Norman Vincent Peale, was Donald Trump's minister when he was a kid.  In case anyone was wondering where that guy got the notion started and reinforced that he could ignore reality and just assert random claims loudly and have them come true.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

PerditaPickle

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2020, 05:31:44 am »
I also want to address this:
Allow me to remedy that with three examples below the spoiler tag of how pushing positivity can be hurtful to others.

Incredibly well articulated Aisling, and I for one wish to thank you for taking the time to share all of this.  Your post has helped me to grasp that notion of toxic positivity much more soundly than previously, which is most useful.
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
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Aisling

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Re: Positive Generation
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2020, 07:50:27 am »
Incredibly well articulated Aisling, and I for one wish to thank you for taking the time to share all of this.  Your post has helped me to grasp that notion of toxic positivity much more soundly than previously, which is most useful.

Very kind of you to say, Perdita.

The idea that positivity can be toxic is a bit counterintuitive on the surface, so I'm grateful to the friends who were willing to share their experiences to show the impact it can have.
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But once you learn your answers, you can never unlearn them."
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