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Author Topic: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate  (Read 1756 times)

TheGreenWizard

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 10:42:40 pm »
How do you think your spiritual practices would change if you were living in space? How do you think pagan religions in general might change? After all, many pagan paths are based around nature, the seasons and other features of Earth's surface.

How would the worship of a lunar deity look when practiced on a Moon colony?

How would you go about calling the quarters while in orbit?

Would people be less inclined to be concerned about protecting the environment, when living in entirely artificial habitats? Or would they be more concerned, because their biospheres would be so small and fragile?

I love this thought experiment, and you've got my gears turning!

Since pagan religions are nature/environment-based, I'd say that there would be different deities/goddesses/gods/spirits which would be based upon the different astronomical objects (note - I'm not listing all the different types of things in space - that's too long of a list), flora, and fauna, and such that would be found in space. So there might be a deity of a black hole who is different from the supermassive black hole at the center of a galaxy. Heck, the entire GALAXY could be a god/goddess. There may even be a different hierarchy established. For example, you have a supreme deity that represents the universe, then deities for the galaxies, system-related deities, spirits for the planets/stars/asteroids in said system, and so forth. They would all be established pantheons that are unique to a certain sector or portion of the universe, but are complexly related to one another... (Wait until we add alternate dimensions with the multi-verse theory - how would THAT work?!)

That stated, I do think that lunar deity worship would differ on a Moon colony. After all, we no longer can establish what phase of the moon we're at; instead, we're looking at what phase of the Earth we are at (e.g., full Earth, Quarter Earth, etc; see here: http://earthsky.org/space/what-would-earth-look-like-from-the-moon). Depending on your practice, you'd also have to take into account how the Moon was created (impact of two proto-planets - Theia and Earth - which resulted in the moon and Earth) into your mythos, and the physics of it... After all, if you're doing this outside of an artificial gravity field, you'd have to contend with the smaller gravity force of the Moon.

Calling for quarters in orbit would be disorienting for me... but I would just use relative terms or decide a fixed North position to solve the problem. However, the elements would be different in space - I don't think I would call to Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, but to Earth, Space, Light, and Dark? Or maybe use other terms? Not entirely sure how that would work, given the situation with the new deities.

I think people would be MORE inclined to protect the biospheres they are in - especially if they are artificially created. However, if we do find exoplanets that have similar biospheres to Earth, then it'll fall either two ways: first, they'll care for it because it's their job to follow the Prime Directive to keep things pristine; or second, they'll trash the living hell out of it because after all, they can leave to go to another planet, and they care more about their individual survival than the survival of other biological beings that are not useful to them.
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SunflowerP

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 11:34:49 pm »
Since pagan religions are nature/environment-based....

I don't want to derail the main discussion, so I'll keep this brief: Not necessarily, they aren't. (This is something of a fraught issue on TC, as many of our members practice pagan religions of which it's not true, and get really tired of people telling them it is.)

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TheGreenWizard

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 10:42:14 am »
I don't want to derail the main discussion, so I'll keep this brief: Not necessarily, they aren't. (This is something of a fraught issue on TC, as many of our members practice pagan religions of which it's not true, and get really tired of people telling them it is.)

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Hariti

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 03:19:48 am »
Would people be less inclined to be concerned about protecting the environment, when living in entirely artificial habitats? Or would they be more concerned, because their biospheres would be so small and fragile?

I don't practice lunar worship or count moon phases, so I cannot really answer your other questions. However, since my personal respect for nature is driven by the desire to alleviate the suffering of nonhuman animals, I do not believe that would change. As long as the environment has animals living in it, even if humanity has left, I believe that it needs to be protected from harm.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Sefiru

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 07:02:23 pm »
That stated, I do think that lunar deity worship would differ on a Moon colony. After all, we no longer can establish what phase of the moon we're at; instead, we're looking at what phase of the Earth we are at (e.g., full Earth, Quarter Earth, etc; see here: http://earthsky.org/space/what-would-earth-look-like-from-the-moon).

That's a fascinating point - I hadn't even thought of that!

Sefiru

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2017, 07:09:22 pm »
As long as the environment has animals living in it, even if humanity has left,

I take it you're using the word 'environment' to refer to Earth specifically? How do you think humans would behave towards the environments they travelled to?

Though, I can totally see there being some sects that privilege Earth-descended life forms over those from other planets. Because people are like that. (Likewise, I can imagine some people believing that an entire alien biosphere is more 'enlightened' or whatever than Earth's, just because it is foreign.)

Crystalline

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2017, 10:32:50 am »

How would you go about calling the quarters while in orbit?


"I hail you Guardians of the Watchtower of the...Up? ...Down? Shit.." Lol

This is an interesting thought, though!

Most depictions of those living in artificial environments have them being more conscientious of their environments, but I often second guess that idea when reading Sci-fi. If they could make that artificial habitat, what's stopping them from making another? And another? They'd become disposable, if history is any indication. Look at the evolution of razors, cars, dishes, and diapers.

Paganism would be vastly different, in my opinion, at least in the methodology. I think it would be more heavily science based than what we commonly see. The power of influence is no minor consideration, and environment is our greatest influence.

TheGreenWizard

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2017, 12:47:12 pm »
"I hail you Guardians of the Watchtower of the...Up? ...Down? Shit.." Lol

This is an interesting thought, though!

Most depictions of those living in artificial environments have them being more conscientious of their environments, but I often second guess that idea when reading Sci-fi. If they could make that artificial habitat, what's stopping them from making another? And another? They'd become disposable, if history is any indication. Look at the evolution of razors, cars, dishes, and diapers.

Paganism would be vastly different, in my opinion, at least in the methodology. I think it would be more heavily science based than what we commonly see. The power of influence is no minor consideration, and environment is our greatest influence.

I disagree with the emphasized part - assuming costs would go down as we see corporations creating and mass-producing artificial habitats, you're still in space, and that's one thing you can't screw around with because to get a replacement part (or even a whole new habitat) could take considerable amount of time depending on where the closest outpost is (this, of course, is assuming replicators a la Star Trek are not in existence as well as FTL travel isn't a possibility).

I do, however, agree with you on the methodology being more influenced by science due to what is needed to survive in space.
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Hariti

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2017, 03:23:41 pm »
I take it you're using the word 'environment' to refer to Earth specifically? How do you think humans would behave towards the environments they travelled to?

Though, I can totally see there being some sects that privilege Earth-descended life forms over those from other planets. Because people are like that. (Likewise, I can imagine some people believing that an entire alien biosphere is more 'enlightened' or whatever than Earth's, just because it is foreign.)

Well, my belief system specifically grants rights and requires respect be given to "animals." If we are talking about alien lifeforms, this could get a bit tricky, depending on how alien they actually were. The current use of "animal" by biologists would not likely apply to aliens of any sort. However, I think some aliens would certain qualify for "animal" rights within my belief system.

I believe that most people would grant alien organisms that *appeared* to be animals the same rights they grant to animals. Can it move? Can it think? Does it display qualities indicating the likely presence of a soul? If so, then it probably should be treated with respect. On the other hand, if it seems to be plant like; it is immobile, it lack's a nervous system, generally resembles a plant, and does not show signs of intellect or emotion, it probably would be treated as a plant.

The real problem arises when you encounter a form of life that is so utterly different from Earth based life that it has no clear analog. I suspect that most people would err on the side of caution and treat such a being with respect, but *some* people would not. There would probably be a few Pagans, Hindus, and otherwise pious, "animal loving" people who would exploit and abuse these types of aliens. (I am talking about really strange aliens, like giant slime molds, living crystals, begins made of non-carbon based materials, etc.)

Generally, I think most people who respect animals and nature would extend that respect to the "animals" of other planets, but some might not, especially if the life forms in question were extremely different from terrestrial ones.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Sefiru

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Re: Paganism IN SPACE!: Let's speculate
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2017, 06:30:31 pm »
"I hail you Guardians of the Watchtower of the...Up? ...Down? Shit.." Lol

Bow, stern, port and starboard?  ;D

Quote
If they could make that artificial habitat, what's stopping them from making another? And another? They'd become disposable, if history is any indication.

IMO, the sticking point wouldn't be damage to the habitats, so much as the issue of waste management.

I have in mind a scene from a scifi novel where a character has gotten a highly toxic substance on him, and goes to wash it off -- but then stops to think about where the waste water will go. In real life, space agencies already tightly control what goes up because of offgassing and such that can seriously screw up life support.

Sure, waste could just be dumped, but (a) simpler not to bring toxins into a habitat in the first place, and (b) that's only feasible with constant resupply, which might not either be possible or wanted.

Scifi is full of space colonies trying to gain independence from Earth. I imagine self-sufficiency would be a big thing. 

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