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Author Topic: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma  (Read 1692 times)

Naturebound

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Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« on: September 26, 2016, 03:01:00 pm »
So, I'm looking for a neutral ground to discuss reasons or solutions to this cycle of manifestation and unintended consequences. Does anyone else have extreme results from their own manifestations, like you get exactly what you ask for but in ways that are completely life altering or not in the way you intended?

Not that I'm complaining, change is necessary for me to be guided towards the right path, but the destructive/creative cycle is a bit intense. I have a fierce will, but most people would not be able to survive these experiences which on a physical plane are beyond my control. I won't go into details of the past to describe this pattern, but the destructive aspect comes in many forms and sacrifice, like destruction of my home, my body, my mind, or my freedom.

The most recent situation is recovering from post-concussive syndrome. How does this relate to manifestations? I write in my journal and then forget about what I wrote until I need to write again, but notice that the previous entry for what I need manifests in reality. In this case, I felt like a phantom in my own life getting lost in responsibilities, providing for my family, duties ect... I needed time to re-evaluate my life's purpose and have time to nurture my soul. Well, I got all of that after losing consciousness on the job, having a concussion, and having to take an extended leave of absence to recover, which has been very challenging but I'm learning.

To clarify, manifestations come from my soul and its need to flourish in the life I'm living. It feels like a deep surge of energy and heat from my core. It sounds like vibrating waves with the tonal variances of many people chanting, increasing in volume until it releases in the universe. This power comes when I have a great need, with obstacles I can't find a way to maneuver around. The great need comes when my soul is fading from my physical body or life, drifting away, or dieing inside, dimming.

Manifestation also works when I focus my energy to goals that resonate with my soul but most of those result from my physical actions which are less complicated. Walking the line between my spiritual life and physical life is tricky. My goal is to live in both realms, the magical and mundane. Its easy to get lost in both separately, or have them working against each other, evolving through survival of the fittest. It is as if the gods/goddesses/karma/universe like to flick the compass needle of my life to reset it. They have quite a task. I am stubborn to the point of being obstinate.

I view destruction as a necessary aspect of life and growth. Plants die and nourish the ground for seeds to grow. With that metaphor, my soil is very rich. I am an artist, so transformation is not a stranger to me. I realize I need some balance. There are many tools to help, including meditation, communing with nature, or spirit guides, chakra work, psychology, dream interpretation, art analysis, or even a healthy lifestyle.

All are tools to Know Thyself, a core aspect of the pagan/wiccan path. On the witchy mage side, the practice of considering the planetary influence and correspondences of each day of the week, is beneficial to utilizing the natural energies of the day to tap into as it applies to my physical life. It aligns physical and spiritual energies naturally so there is less conflict. A small step but effective.
 
Do you have any thoughts, similar experiences, comments, or suggestions? Much gratitude.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 03:42:02 pm by Jenett »

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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2016, 03:41:18 pm »
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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 11:03:48 pm »
Quote from: Naturebound;196682
So, I'm looking for a neutral ground to discuss reasons or solutions to this cycle of manifestation and unintended consequences. Does anyone else have extreme results from their own manifestations, like you get exactly what you ask for but in ways that are completely life altering or not in the way you intended?

My goal is to live in both realms, the magical and mundane. Its easy to get lost in both separately, or have them working against each other, evolving through survival of the fittest. It is as if the gods/goddesses/karma/universe like to flick the compass needle of my life to reset it. They have quite a task. I am stubborn to the point of being obstinate.
You have my sympathies and hopes for best recovery from your concussion.

Not sure if this is neutral, but I can't be entirely sold on New Thought, law of attraction or manifestation. I have read some similar philosophies about how some grand cosmic Spirit orchestrates events for some greater purpose to a corresponding ego who may very well only take it as an attack...but, it very quickly becomes translated to ego as blaming a victim, and then insisting that someone just isn't enlightened enough if they consider themselves victims (or even survivors, for having "thought themselves" into that situation or vibration in the first place, or made the wrong choice from "refusing" to recognize that they'd had one.) That's all well and good for the belief system or paradigm, but I think that causes at least as much psychological and emotional damage as declining to commit to being bigger or better than present tragic circumstances. Sometimes manipulating perceptions or expectations are more delusional than effective. It's awfully convenient that (from what I've read of New Thought) such dissenting experiences must be ignored and invalidated because mere acknowledgment "brings low vibration".

While I'm not saying that you, specifically, have done this nor that you take this attitude as a person or individual...New Thought has become to me a refuge for those who condescend to help better their lives and the world but decline to acknowledge that anything is really truly horribly wrong.

I could certainly interpret a correllation between New Thought manifestation process and my present life circumstances, and maybe some aspects of that belief system are more empowering and constructive to approach life-altering unintended manifestations with...but, mostly I've got to conclude that the manifestation process doesn't personally operate in a way that I can believe in. Which I guess, haha, is how I solve the dilemma. :p
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 11:05:31 pm by Faemon »
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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2016, 09:19:51 am »
Quote from: Faemon;196745
You have my sympathies and hopes for best recovery from your concussion.

Not sure if this is neutral, but I can't be entirely sold on New Thought, law of attraction or manifestation. I have read some similar philosophies about how some grand cosmic Spirit orchestrates events for some greater purpose to a corresponding ego who may very well only take it as an attack...but, it very quickly becomes translated to ego as blaming a victim, and then insisting that someone just isn't enlightened enough if they consider themselves victims (or even survivors, for having "thought themselves" into that situation or vibration in the first place, or made the wrong choice from "refusing" to recognize that they'd had one.) That's all well and good for the belief system or paradigm, but I think that causes at least as much psychological and emotional damage as declining to commit to being bigger or better than present tragic circumstances. Sometimes manipulating perceptions or expectations are more delusional than effective. It's awfully convenient that (from what I've read of New Thought) such dissenting experiences must be ignored and invalidated because mere acknowledgment "brings low vibration".

While I'm not saying that you, specifically, have done this nor that you take this attitude as a person or individual...New Thought has become to me a refuge for those who condescend to help better their lives and the world but decline to acknowledge that anything is really truly horribly wrong.

I could certainly interpret a correllation between New Thought manifestation process and my present life circumstances, and maybe some aspects of that belief system are more empowering and constructive to approach life-altering unintended manifestations with...but, mostly I've got to conclude that the manifestation process doesn't personally operate in a way that I can believe in. Which I guess, haha, is how I solve the dilemma. :p

 
Thank you so much for your response! I thought I scared people off with the topic! lol And much gratitude for your positive energy in healing.  I am getting better every day, its just a slow process to what I 'should' be able to do and sometimes acceptance is difficult.

I guess it is only human to try to justify or explain tragic circumstances, trying to make some sense of it, because if something that life altering happens for no reason whatsoever... then the comfort would be nihilism... (Don't get me wrong, I love some of Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy and incorporate some of his key ideas in how I do figurative ceramics sculpture.)

As of right now, I do not resonate with any specific paradigm of beliefs. I've studied and practiced many but use my own intuition to guide me.  I realize that this is a controversial perspective but there are a lot of similar energy resonances in many different paths and they are all leading to the same source, depending on the scope of perception.  I follow the energy strains that my soul resonates naturally with...  

Which sometimes makes it difficult to open conversation on topics, to say the least. I do believe things happen for a reason, even if that reason can be elusive. I also have a predominant calling for a greater purpose in my life... but that is a continual journey... I don't know if I will actually reach the 'destination' in this life. The greater purpose for me, presently, is to create and connect to others on a profound level using art.  Fortunately, I have been blessed with talent in the arts that I use as a tool for my path, the inner path that goes to the many horizons.

I hope I've helped clarify.  I agree with your discrepancies of New Thought.  I acknowledge to the best of my ability when things go 'wrong' and analyze it to death in hopes to understand it better versus the denial of it or blaming myself for the 'low vibration.'  

I view the terrible things in life as some sort of wake up call or need to change for the better.  Like the silver lining to my concussion, has been the re-evaluation of what matters in my life and gave me the time to sort out my true priorities without the distractions of having the busy and on the go lifestyle which obviously I went way overboard on that lifestyle as it adversely affected my health which caused me to faint in the first place from exhaustion.  In this month of recovery, I have been able to actual care for my family and spend time with them and my hubby is renovating a small shed so I have a quiet space of my own to do art.  These are things I need to live a more balanced, productive, healthy life.  PCS as traumatic as that is gave me the time to sort out those needs.    

From what I've written, do you know of any belief systems that correspond more specifically to my perspective? It might help me communicate to others better by giving some orientation of trains of thought, other than my nature-loving-intuitive collective form of spirituality.  Just curious.  ;P  

If you feel comfortable with sharing, what belief paradigms do you orientate yourself from?  Or what are your spiritual pagan influences? I love exploring different branches and finding how it correlates to my own regardless of agreeing or disagreeing.

Much gratitude to you!  It helps so much for me to voice out complicated but persistent thought patterns and get responses that trigger sorting them out.  So Thank You!

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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 12:15:28 pm »
Quote from: Naturebound;196682
So, I'm looking for a neutral ground to discuss reasons or solutions to this cycle of manifestation and unintended consequences. Does anyone else have extreme results from their own manifestations, like you get exactly what you ask for but in ways that are completely life altering or not in the way you intended?


The particular religious witchcraft tradition I'm an initiate and priestess in does a lot of work with the idea of the phoenix - to say I am used to having my life blow up and resettle, over and over, is an understatement.

(This has involved, since 2001, 2 long distance moves, a divorce, a year's unemployment, dealing with several rounds of chronic health issues that were at times disabling, going back to school to finish my graduate degree, and a handful of other things. Not precisely in that order. Plus a lot of rearrangements of social relationships.)

A number of times along that process, I have had specific things fall out in a way I could not have arranged better if I tried. (When I went back to grad school, my school could have required me to retake more classes: they didn't, and the ones offered my last year fit really well into what I wanted to do. While I've had extended job hunts twice - not uncommon in the library field - they've ended up with jobs that were the thing I needed at the time, and my current job is amazing, and I'm back where I grew up, with longtime friends and newer friends, and this particular job is a once in a decade thing at best. (Most people in my current position have been in the job for decades.)
 
I've long since learned two things: roll with the changes rather than fight them, and be very clear about what my end goals are, rather than focusing on details.

For example, during my last job hunt, my focus was "Right job, right people, right place, right circumstances." - namely, a job that I was able to be excellent at and that would be excellent for me, with people who would treat me well professionally, in a place that I could be happy (both work-wise and general life) and where the details worked for me (covering everything from commute to pay and benefits. Focusing on a particular job, or even a particular place to live hasn't worked well for me, I think because it restricts the flow of things sorting themselves out for the best possible result.

Quote
All are tools to Know Thyself, a core aspect of the pagan/wiccan path.


One terminology note: conflating Pagan and Wiccan here is probably not an ideal take on it - as this board demonstrates, Paganism encompasses a wide range of practices. While many of them have an ethic of Know Thyself, not all Pagan paths do, or put special weight on it.

(And on the witchcraft side, there are forms of eclectic witchcraft that don't drive the same degree of self-knowledge and particularly the courting of deliberate questioning and discomfort for the sake of growth and expansion as some witchcraft trads do.)

Basically, it's an area where generalisations may get problematic and not so useful.

In terms of my actual practices, I do very little deliberate alignment of days like you describe (I pay attention to it for specific rituals a couple of times a year, but even then it's more often 'doing this ritual on X day, what are the influences I should bear in mind, and how should I structure the ritual to take them into account'. This is partly a function of the chronic health issues, since the combo of working + recovery time means I've got limited days on which more involved ritual is possible, but it's also just not a way I worked when I had more options.)

A lot of what I do, though is paying attention to what are, on the surface, relatively small things:

- What feedback am I getting in my day to day life? (What do people who know me or see me regularly tell me? How do I feel? What do the various tracking apps I use tell me?)

- Are there things that pop into my awareness repeatedly, unusually so, in a short period of time? The same concept turning up in unrelated reading, for example (I read both books and a number of online articles: sometimes there's just a thing everyone's talking about that week, but sometimes the same thing pops up in different contexts where it's not a normal topic of conversation: those I pay attention to.)

- What do I find myself reaching for or wanting more of? I often talk to myself in the car while driving (it's a method of processing that helps me rehearse situations when I'm chewing on something or stressed) and if I find the same thing coming up over and over again, that's a time to poke at what's going on more.
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Faemon

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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2016, 06:49:19 pm »
Quote from: Naturebound;196767
As of right now, I do not resonate with any specific paradigm of beliefs. I've studied and practiced many but use my own intuition to guide me.  I realize that this is a controversial perspective but there are a lot of similar energy resonances in many different paths and they are all leading to the same source, depending on the scope of perception.  I follow the energy strains that my soul resonates naturally with...  

Which sometimes makes it difficult to open conversation on topics, to say the least. I do believe things happen for a reason, even if that reason can be elusive. I also have a predominant calling for a greater purpose in my life... but that is a continual journey... I don't know if I will actually reach the 'destination' in this life. The greater purpose for me, presently, is to create and connect to others on a profound level using art.  Fortunately, I have been blessed with talent in the arts that I use as a tool for my path, the inner path that goes to the many horizons.

I hope I've helped clarify.  I agree with your discrepancies of New Thought.  I acknowledge to the best of my ability when things go 'wrong' and analyze it to death in hopes to understand it better versus the denial of it or blaming myself for the 'low vibration.'  

I view the terrible things in life as some sort of wake up call or need to change for the better.  Like the silver lining to my concussion, has been the re-evaluation of what matters in my life and gave me the time to sort out my true priorities without the distractions of having the busy and on the go lifestyle which obviously I went way overboard on that lifestyle as it adversely affected my health which caused me to faint in the first place from exhaustion.  In this month of recovery, I have been able to actual care for my family and spend time with them and my hubby is renovating a small shed so I have a quiet space of my own to do art.  These are things I need to live a more balanced, productive, healthy life.  PCS as traumatic as that is gave me the time to sort out those needs.    

From what I've written, do you know of any belief systems that correspond more specifically to my perspective? It might help me communicate to others better by giving some orientation of trains of thought, other than my nature-loving-intuitive collective form of spirituality.  Just curious.  ;P
 

Two similar things come to mind. First, pre-colonial mystic revival (or survival, as the case may be) from my country that generally fits the model of anthropological shamanism in this aspect: that those with a calling to spiritual responsibility over the community will fall ill. When they heal themselves, it means they know how to heal, and are ready to heal others. That's one spiritual awakening path, and it seems the illness is spiritually meted out.

On the one hand, I get it, people who are in a bad place can't really get advice by someone who's never been there. On the other hand, I've got to give a suspicious squint to some grand order of the universe that can make bad things happen to people. Lately I've resolved it by deciding that if someone can make something good out of something bad, that's not the Universe or Spirit or whatever being trustworthy...instead, that's you being awesome.

The second is MacCoun's On Becoming An Alchemist, which at least acknowledges that some things on earth are too terrible to chalk up to spiritual learning experience. The content of this book regards each alchemical process (evaporating stuff, distilling stuff, fermenting stuff) as a metaphor for emotional processes with a spiritual dimension. The cosmology and metaphysics is explained very simply, which I appreciate. I've read this spagery book was pretty good, too, and the review gives me the urge to use actual glassware in my alchemical practice. But, anyway, the first step MacCoun described was "calcination" which spiritually and emotionally is translated to life events as loss, specifically the sort of devastating loss that gives someone the opportunity to find that which they'll never lose...which, uh, not pleasant, but...makes a jot of sense.

Quote
If you feel comfortable with sharing, what belief paradigms do you orientate yourself from?  Or what are your spiritual pagan influences? I love exploring different branches and finding how it correlates to my own regardless of agreeing or disagreeing.

Carl Jung's psychoanalysis of symbols, Joseph Campbell's application of that to cultural schema (knowing that Campbell's got problems has not successfully uprooted that influence from my paradigm, but it did get me to go from the initial reaction of "Nuh-uh you will leave Campbell alone he was a Nice Man" to quietly chanting "fight, fight, fight, fight, fight..." through a mouthful of popcorn, because Manganaro is marvelously snarky.)

Fairy lore/legends and fairy tales are what I'm most drawn to. The lore/legends I read more like testimonies of paranormal experiences, although of course capturing oral traditions in text has still got this "how much can I embellish and still get away with" credulity factor to consider; but when it strains credulity enough to become literature, that is the fairy tales, we get interpretations such as Freudian psychologist Bettelheim's On the Uses of Enchantment, which I consider interesting and odd, because on the one hand Bettelheim says first off that it depends on the patient what the fairy tale "truly means" psychologically/personally and how it helps 'em, and then goes on to interpret each tale in a codified One True (Freudian) Way.

Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes deserves mention, too, as the first story analysis I'd ever read. I was just a kid then, but I flipped through it thinking, awesome, folk tales, this is totally age-appropriate. And then I considered the commentary more interesting than the actual stories, because I could learn words like rubedo. Did not know it was Jungian symbolic analysis. Imprinted on me like a baby duck.

Story interpretation to me now leans more towards New Historicism, although an awful lot of fairy lore has become something I believe literally rather than literary-ly. I've been hammering out my own cosmology, metaphysics, vocabulary, and practices based on all that.

I believe that stories can change minds slightly, and that in a way we all live on narrative. It's a nonfiction narrative, but it's also a nonphysical narrative, although the sense we make of the physical is itself narrative. I'd recommend Pratchett's Discworld novels for this, but because these ideas came up in the series as the underlying philosophy, it's not exactly a cohesive body of explanation so much as quotable quotes as they come up. This paragraph's given (I hope) the gist of it.

Quote
Much gratitude to you!  It helps so much for me to voice out complicated but persistent thought patterns and get responses that trigger sorting them out.  So Thank You!

Why thank you for putting it that way! I function similarly. :)
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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 10:09:49 am »
Quote from: Jenett;196777
The particular religious witchcraft tradition I'm an initiate and priestess in does a lot of work with the idea of the phoenix - to say I am used to having my life blow up and resettle, over and over, is an understatement.

I understand.  Do you have any resources that do a more in depth exploration of the idea of the phoenix?  Other than the basic mythology, I haven't studied that particular area but am definitely interested in learning more as it seems to relate to the cycles that my life goes through also.

Quote from: Jenett;196777
I've long since learned two things: roll with the changes rather than fight them, and be very clear about what my end goals are, rather than focusing on details.


Yes! That works for me too, when I can put my need-to-be-in-control tendencies aside... which is challenging in itself.  lol  




Quote from: Jenett;196777
One terminology note: conflating Pagan and Wiccan here is probably not an ideal take on it - as this board demonstrates, Paganism encompasses a wide range of practices. While many of them have an ethic of Know Thyself, not all Pagan paths do, or put special weight on it.

(And on the witchcraft side, there are forms of eclectic witchcraft that don't drive the same degree of self-knowledge and particularly the courting of deliberate questioning and discomfort for the sake of growth and expansion as some witchcraft trads do.)

Basically, it's an area where generalisations may get problematic and not so useful.

 
Noted.  I can be ignorant through assumptions at times.  So thank you!  This is the first time that I've been able to communicate with this many people at once about paganism/spirituality ect... which is super exciting but I will be more careful...  I never mean to offend anyone... but do accidentally put my foot in my mouth.

Quote from: Jenett;196777
In terms of my actual practices, I do very little deliberate alignment of days like you describe (I pay attention to it for specific rituals a couple of times a year, but even then it's more often 'doing this ritual on X day, what are the influences I should bear in mind, and how should I structure the ritual to take them into account'. This is partly a function of the chronic health issues, since the combo of working + recovery time means I've got limited days on which more involved ritual is possible, but it's also just not a way I worked when I had more options.)


Best wishes to your recovery! I understand... I have to be very selective for any actions other than laying down and doing nothing because any stimulation, concentration, focus, movement has a price in recuperation time... So what I can do has to be worth it.  Plus side it has been a month since my concussion and I can read again at least for an hour with minimal breaks, versus the first week I couldn't last over a couple of minutes without having an hour of doing nothing to pay afterwards.  

Quote from: Jenett;196777
A lot of what I do, though is paying attention to what are, on the surface, relatively small things:

- What feedback am I getting in my day to day life? (What do people who know me or see me regularly tell me? How do I feel? What do the various tracking apps I use tell me?)

- Are there things that pop into my awareness repeatedly, unusually so, in a short period of time? The same concept turning up in unrelated reading, for example (I read both books and a number of online articles: sometimes there's just a thing everyone's talking about that week, but sometimes the same thing pops up in different contexts where it's not a normal topic of conversation: those I pay attention to.)

- What do I find myself reaching for or wanting more of? I often talk to myself in the car while driving (it's a method of processing that helps me rehearse situations when I'm chewing on something or stressed) and if I find the same thing coming up over and over again, that's a time to poke at what's going on more.

Interesting...  Synchronicity can be a useful tool for me too, but usually I only pay attention to the blatantly obvious ones and don't pay attention to the small things unless I make a conscious effort to.  I kinda get lost in my own thoughts so I tend to overlook what's going on around me.  I've worked on keeping myself grounded... and I am better than I used to be...  but there's still a lot of work to be done on that account... It helps to read your perspective.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 10:12:50 am by Naturebound »

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Re: Manifestation Cycle Dilemma
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 08:37:22 pm »
Sorry for taking a couple of days to reply - I've had an unusually busy couple of days.

Quote from: Naturebound;196806
I understand.  Do you have any resources that do a more in depth exploration of the idea of the phoenix?  Other than the basic mythology, I haven't studied that particular area but am definitely interested in learning more as it seems to relate to the cycles that my life goes through also.


Not that I can easily discuss - a lot of my own experiences are tied up in oathbound material in my own tradition, or things that take a fair amount of time to establish a shared background and vocabulary about to get into much detail. (The kind of thing I have done with people who have been friends for years, from time to time, who are not members of my tradition, but not very often.)

The fact it's part of the witchcraft tradition I learned (not one that I designed or is solely my own practice) also means that while I've done my own research into the mythology and various approaches, there's also a lot that has been developed by other people, or grown out of specific ritual experiences they had, some of which I know about, and some of which I inherited the results of.
 
Quote

Noted.  I can be ignorant through assumptions at times.  So thank you!  This is the first time that I've been able to communicate with this many people at once about paganism/spirituality ect... which is super exciting but I will be more careful...  I never mean to offend anyone... but do accidentally put my foot in my mouth.


We're pretty glad to help people who are sincerely interested in learning more!

If you haven't already looked at it, you might find the Teens and Paganism FAQ (put together by Cauldron members a few years ago) of use. Despite the name, it's got great information for people of all ages, and it might help you sort out some of the different paths.

Quote
Best wishes to your recovery!


So, this is part of the reason I didn't answer this, because I was trying to figure out how to explain this part.

For me, my issues are chronic health issues, and 'recovery' is not very likely, in the sense of them going away sometime in the future. (I can do things to help manage them, both medical and life choices, but 'manage' is the operative word in most cases, barring major medical advances.)

Two of my chronic things predate my witchcraft training, but the other four don't. And here's the thing: as my health has required changes, my witchcraft training (and especially t he parts about reininventing myself without forgetting what I was, but reshaping myself to what I need to be now) has allowed me to go through those changes without as much internal damage as might have been.

There are certainly things I'm *frustrated* I can't do, or that I dislike having weeks in which I know I'm not going to make much progress on some personal projects because work or medical appointments or other life things eat all my spare energy. But I can roll with it in a way not all religious practices give framework for.

So, if we're talking about making things change, or making things manifest, I think it's got to come from a place of practicality: I think magic and holistic practice and a number of other things can *help* with some kinds of changes, but they're not going to make the past experiences just disappear.

Working to manifest things that reflect that works a lot better for me. Finding a job that works for me, with my body's limitations, for example) has worked a lot better for me than "I wish my body didn't have those limitations." in other words.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

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