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Author Topic: Issue with a prayer  (Read 1796 times)

rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 02:59:24 pm »

If prayer helps you with these intruding thoughts, then please continue to do that.


They do.  Thanks, but as I said in my OP I am finding it confusing.

Out of curiosity how do you define your relationship with a deity, if any?  Example, agnostic, atheist, deist?

corrosivesquid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 03:14:10 pm »


They do.  Thanks, but as I said in my OP I am finding it confusing.

Out of curiosity how do you define your relationship with a deity, if any?  Example, agnostic, atheist, deist?

I find my relationship still growing with my deities and I'm still find my place in the pagan walk of life. I don't find myself praying to them for things, just the strength to do them for myself, but at the moment I'm still feeling them out.

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Morbid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 03:20:31 pm »
They do.  Thanks, but as I said in my OP I am finding it confusing.

Out of curiosity how do you define your relationship with a deity, if any?  Example, agnostic, atheist, deist?

For me and Anubis it's almost like a father/son type deal.
For he who has truly lived never truly dies.

Darkhawk

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 06:14:59 pm »
For some reason I believe that it was a message from the Goddess that enough is enough for my life. 

That reason would be "mental illness". Or, if you need a spiritual explanation for it, "demonic attack".

Quote
Just to play the devil's advocate, why doesn't a deity stop us from dying if what is said is true that a deity never wishes harm on us?

For the most part, we are the hands of the gods; if their will is to be enacted it's up to us to do it.
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rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 04:18:05 am »
That reason would be "mental illness". Or, if you need a spiritual explanation for it, "demonic attack".


The Goddess is not demonic.  I think you are missing the point.

ehbowen

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 08:07:23 am »
The Goddess is not demonic.  I think you are missing the point.

True Satanic attack can take many forms. At one point, it came through the form and person of my own father whom I loved and continue to love very much. Evil can be very, very effective when it wears a familiar face.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Darkhawk

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2018, 09:43:02 am »
The Goddess is not demonic.  I think you are missing the point.

A goddess cannot encourage suicide; the duty of gods is to oppose annihilation.

Annihilation only comes from annihilatory forces, not creative ones.
as the water grinds the stone
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2018, 10:27:21 am »
A goddess cannot encourage suicide; the duty of gods is to oppose annihilation.

Annihilation only comes from annihilatory forces, not creative ones.

This is an important issue to think about.  I believe in creation and I believe that part of creating is also death however difficult it is to think of it.  I think suicidal thoughts are part of this cycle.  I prefer to not see it this way but I think it is reality.

Morbid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2018, 05:12:11 pm »
This is an important issue to think about.  I believe in creation and I believe that part of creating is also death however difficult it is to think of it.  I think suicidal thoughts are part of this cycle.  I prefer to not see it this way but I think it is reality.
Death is a part of the cycle, yes.  Because death ends the pain of life.  The problem with suicide is that it doesn't end the pain, it redistributes it.  Greiving aside, when someone commits suicide the pain is spread to your loved ones. 
For he who has truly lived never truly dies.

Miquna

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2018, 08:23:54 pm »
This is an important issue to think about.  I believe in creation and I believe that part of creating is also death however difficult it is to think of it.  I think suicidal thoughts are part of this cycle.  I prefer to not see it this way but I think it is reality.

I've been struggling how to respond to this thread, but I will try my best. As a person with depression myself, it can be a terrible burden to live with, as are all mental health problems. Mental illness can be insidious, and depression can infect one's thoughts in countless subtle ways. Moreover, especially if one does not have a strong sense of spiritual discernment (I certainly do not! And I am not impugning your own ability to detect such things necessarily- most pagans only very rarely get messages that can be truly heard loud and clear, or may not ever) it can be unclear if one is receiving a spiritual message, or just thinking their own thoughts, as it were. When one is in a particularly bad episode of depression, it becomes easy for negative and self-destructive thoughts to spiral on each other, and I find that one often convinces themself of their validity. Thoughts like "even my deity thinks it would be better if I died" often enters one's mind, and self loathing piles up on itself in a horrible cycle. Ultimately we experience everything in the mind, and it is possible for our perceptions to be warped. In my experience, when deities make themselves known, it is not in long term recurring patterns of thought, but in sudden flashes of image and concepts that suddenly appear in my mind's eye; for others the divine experience may come differently, but I can't think of any reliable account of them making their presence known through long term tendencies towards thinking in a particular way.

Whether a deity would ever wish such harm upon their worshipper is ultimately up to one's theology, and I cannot force you to subscribe to any theology, but in my own beliefs and limited experience, the gods are life affirming, and understanding towards our frailties, not cruel or petty. Having suicidal ideation does not place any sort of moral stain on you, nor should it be any sort of burden on your conscience. Illnesses of all kinds exist, and simply being ill does not imply any sort of moral deficiency. You are not guilty of anything for your mental illness, any more than I am guilty of something for needing to wear glasses. Instead, I think that praying for a clear conscience is to pray for the moral sense to discern right actions from wrong actions, and the conviction to make things right if and when you do wrong. Being mentally ill is not doing wrong.

I do not know the nature of your Goddess, or what your beliefs or theology are like, but I do not believe that She wishes ill upon you, or unhappiness, and certainly not death. I think that our world and either spiritual realities are intrinsically linked, and that we are meant to be here for a while, and perhaps to move through these other worlds when the time has come from it, but not sooner than necessary. And I want you to know that the ways that we deal with mental health are always different for each individual- I went through medications and doctors for years and still have problems with my own mental health. Nobody is a hopeless case, and you are not alone. If I may paraphrase a favorite song of mine, in my spiritual path, the gods are waiting for us to give them our hands, because they think we're wonderful.

Waldhexe

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2018, 02:26:55 pm »
For some reason I believe that it was a message from the Goddess that enough is enough for my life.  Just to play the devil's advocate, why doesn't a deity stop us from dying if what is said is true that a deity never wishes harm on us?
For me it sounds like you're talking yourself into suicide. You say you feel your deity gives you this message, but it sounds like she never directly said anything about suicide to you.

Maybe you're waiting for your deity to say the opposite? Do you need an affirmation that you're worth living? If so maybe you could pray for a positive sign and really honestly open up for it. I've had depressive phases and made the experience that there are always gods who will come to your aid if you need them.

(They are like a psych emergency hotline though, they can only help if you listen to them, if you drop the phone they can't stop you.)

I'm also wondering why you feel your conscience isn't clear? What is the obstacle you have to overcome to have peace of mind? Maybe that's also something you can work on and also ask for help or advice in what to do...?

It's a while ago, but I've made a spirit journey to the Moirae (the Greek threefold fate goddeses) because I felt my life was too painful and I couldn't figure out what the purpose of it could be... They just smiled and told me to make tea. That was it. First I was disappointed because I wanted big advice on how to restructure my life or thought maybe they would tell me that my life is truly fucked up and nothing could be done...and then they just tell me to make tea...

But my life got better after a lot of struggles and patience and I realized later what wisdom was in this simple advice.

rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2018, 03:24:52 pm »
I do not know the nature of your Goddess, or what your beliefs or theology are like, but I do not believe that She wishes ill upon you, or unhappiness, and certainly not death.

I know but I have come to realize that even deities have limits and she is unable to reach me enough to take away the pain of what I am going through.  We are brought up to believe that deity is omnipotent but it seems that is not accurate.

rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2018, 03:28:55 pm »
For me it sounds like you're talking yourself into suicide.

I can assure you that is not the case but it overwhelms my conscience that I haven't gone ahead with it.  Maybe she hasn't but she is no where to be reached for me at the moment. This limit of hope is what makes me feel really bad.

I am glad that your life has gotten better but for me things are looking downhill for years and from the looks of it what is coming is worse.  That is why I don't want to look into the abyss.  It causes me permanent vertigo which I don't like.

 

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