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Author Topic: Issue with a prayer  (Read 2322 times)

rous54

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Issue with a prayer
« on: March 18, 2018, 02:06:25 pm »
Hello everyone,

I love the following prayer that I say every day however I have an issue that arises from it:

May my heart be gentle
My mind still and open
My spirit unshackled
My awareness keen
My conscience clear
My nature giving
May I be a healing energy
May I be of benefit to all
May my life enrich others
May I know what matters
And love in harmony with nature

When I say that "my conscience clear", it is not true and it will never be true because I have suicidal thoughts and I feel that my conscience will not be clear unless I go through with the suicide.  I feel that it is a sign from the Goddess that my life is for naught and that it will not turn out ok.  So how can I pray that but I know that it is not true?  Is my prayer hypocrisy?

Thanks.

Uneryx

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 08:06:11 pm »
Hello everyone,

I love the following prayer that I say every day however I have an issue that arises from it:

May my heart be gentle
My mind still and open
My spirit unshackled
My awareness keen
My conscience clear
My nature giving
May I be a healing energy
May I be of benefit to all
May my life enrich others
May I know what matters
And love in harmony with nature

When I say that "my conscience clear", it is not true and it will never be true because I have suicidal thoughts and I feel that my conscience will not be clear unless I go through with the suicide.  I feel that it is a sign from the Goddess that my life is for naught and that it will not turn out ok.  So how can I pray that but I know that it is not true?  Is my prayer hypocrisy?

Thanks.

You are making a request for a clear conscience. The may isn't said in each line, but is implied. So even if it doesn't feel true in the immediate, you are asking the Goddess for to give you a clear conscience.

I can't really fathom a deity worth worshiping who would say to their people that their lives are meaningless. Furthermore, don't allow you to gaslight yourself and convince yourself of something that you know isn't true.

Between knowing your life has value, and that you are asking for something rather than stating something, I don't see any hypocrisy.

Do you have someone IRL that you can talk to about the thoughts and what is behind them?

Jack

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 02:38:19 am »


You are making a request for a clear conscience. The may isn't said in each line, but is implied. So even if it doesn't feel true in the immediate, you are asking the Goddess for to give you a clear conscience.

Yeah, this. If it helps, you could verbally add the "may" at the beginning of every line to make it clear to yourself.

Also remember you could always choose to leave that line out entirely if you want.

I deal with intrusive thoughts and I've had to make changes to my practice at various points because specific things were setting me off. The powers I work with have always been understanding, though it helps that I tend to avoid deities that I fear may not be so.



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rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 05:01:12 am »


You are making a request for a clear conscience. The may isn't said in each line, but is implied. So even if it doesn't feel true in the immediate, you are asking the Goddess for to give you a clear conscience.

Thank you. This makes sense. It might give hope of a clear conscience however little and temporary it is.

Thanks for your care in your response. I do feel that my conscience will be clear if I go ahead with the suicide as it makes sense. I was feeling crushed by a prospect of hopelessness that it made more sense to just kill myself.

If course I seeked professional help but to no avail. Somethings just can't be changed.

I will consider this new look when saying the prayer.

Thanks.

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rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 05:08:57 am »
Also remember you could always choose to leave that line out entirely if you want.


Thanks.  I have considered this.  I will try to reflect on the "may" which will give a new perspective when saying the prayer.  If not i will consider not saying that conscience part.

Jack

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 02:01:07 pm »


If course I seeked professional help but to no avail. Somethings just can't be changed.

I felt this way for a long time but a new doctor and the right meds have made a huge, huge difference for me. Lovingkindness meditation also helped. Other people might recommend other things. You can always, always try something else.

Everything changes, one way or another.

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corrosivesquid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 02:15:51 pm »




If course I seeked professional help but to no avail.

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Hey, so I know sometimes it feels like even professional help won t help, but I would try again. Sometimes you gotta go through a few therapists before you find one that just works.
I would also suggest an anti depressant, sometimes our brain chemistry needs a little help in producing the chemicals needed to help keep us going.
I don't think any god/goddess would tell you your life is meaningless, maybe they are trying to push you to continue to seek professional help again.

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Castus

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 03:05:23 pm »
Somethings just can't be changed.

Jack is right. While your concerns regarding your prayer have, I think, been addressed adequately by Uneryx, but we would be remiss if the bit about you being suicidal was overlooked. For reasons that have eluded me, The Cauldron has always been a delicious fruitcake of mental illness and I daresay more than a few of us can relate to your situation. Buuuuuuuuuut I'm going to link your experiences to my own, which are probably similar from the description you've given, primarily to indulge in my favourite subject: myself.

It was roughly late 2015 when I completely lost any shred of sanity and plunged into what, eventually, would be diagnosed as bipolar depressive disorder with oceans of suicidal ideation. I voluntarily institutionalised myself twice in 2016 due to the suicidal tendencies -- I made quite a few exit plans but our house is mercifully free of ways to painlessly turn out the lights -- and spent 12 days in yet another psych hospital in early 2017; although that time as the result of a court order. I remember those times. It is impossible to describe what puts one in that situation. Simply impossible. Despair, depression, hopelessness, feeling trapped, these are ugly ornaments for feelings which cannot be described; the feelings of the very darkest times of a human soul. I know them well.

But here I am. It has been a long and painful road, and has required hundreds of weekly visits to a therapist, multiple medication changes, and a daily struggle to simply move forward. To walk. To breath. And it's been exhausting. Even now it tires me and of late I've been going through a difficult spell. But I've done it. From what my therapist described as "very, very serious" depression and tidal waves of intrusive thoughts I've now come to a state where my depression is almost completely divorced from suicidality. That in and of itself presents new challenges, but it's certainly leagues better than where I was at. Things got better for me, and I'm an absolute flaming disaster of a human being. They can get better for you too. Depression and suicidality are nothing but health issues. Diseases. Disorders. And to say that a disease or disorder cannot change is ridiculous. Will it be easy? No. But I do guarantee that if you keep going -- keep trying to find professional help that works, whether it be pills, therapy, both, or neither -- things will change. They'll get better.

Whether you choose to believe me or not, or to seek the kind of help you need, is completely up to you. But besides the obvious consideration that I am brilliant and therefore my advice is a shining example of the path forward, I leave the reminder that suicide most definitely will not clear your conscience. There's a reason almost all modern organised religions condemn suicide (and even in Classical Antiquity it was viewed with disdain unless very specific conditions were met) so if you're a betting man I would be sure to consider just how unpleasant an afterlife/rebirth you're willing to tolerate.


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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 03:25:00 pm »
If course I seeked professional help but to no avail. Somethings just can't be changed.

You may not be entirely wrong here--if you have chronic depression, it's probably something you're going to be struggling with your whole life. And it can be very hard to find the right treatment, and sometimes you need to change treatments, and it's always a pain.

But, two things. One: the first medical treatment anyone tries for depression is unlikely to be immediately effective. Often you have to try different medications, different therapies, different regimens in general to get a result. It's worth continuing to try.

Two: in my experience, the Powers you worship are on your side in dealing with this crap. They may be challenging you, but they want you to succeed and find inner peace and happiness in your life. If you struggle with a prayer, it's very unlikely to be a sign that they just want you to give up. It's much more likely that they're challenging you to improve yourself.

So in addition to seeking medical help, even if it didn't work the first time, I'd recommend reaching out to your Powers to specifically help you with your depression and suicidal feelings. I've struggled with them as well and I found an anti-suicide ward was a helpful thing.
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rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 04:04:24 pm »
I tried many professionals and it doesn't seem to be working.  Also the common meds don't help me. Also with OCD that I am going through right now things have been difficult.

Thanks guys for your input.  I have been struggling with this since a while.

I think that temporarily praying for clear conscience and meditating about it is a good thing.  It is is hope, as brief as it may be.

Morbid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2018, 04:17:18 pm »

Thank you. This makes sense. It might give hope of a clear conscience however little and temporary it is.

Thanks for your care in your response. I do feel that my conscience will be clear if I go ahead with the suicide as it makes sense. I was feeling crushed by a prospect of hopelessness that it made more sense to just kill myself.

If course I seeked professional help but to no avail. Somethings just can't be changed.

I will consider this new look when saying the prayer.

Thanks.

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I want to firstly echo what others have said and say that your deities are on your side in this.  I work closely with Anubis who is involved with the funeral process, mummification, etc. (if you're not read up on him) and I've also struggled with suicidal thoughts.  Anubis has made it exceptionally clear to me that while he would take honor in receiving me - as he does with everyone - that he does NOT[/b] want it prematurely. 

You may not know this bit so I will say it again I'm a Funeral Director/Mortician and I have seen a lot of suicides in my day.  You have to understand that I have a different view on death than most, because I work with it everyday.  And I will tell you from personal experience suicides are the worst.  Not just for the family, but for me too.  For me it's always a little different when I do prep a suicide.  In fact it is those days I lean on Anubis most and ask him to guide my hands the most.  I've had days when faced with a suicide my hands shake and can hardly function.  And these are seasoned hands, no less.  I've prepped and performed the services for hundreds of people.  I guess for me because I feel the weight of that death even more.  Not just a little bit, but ten, twenty, fifty times more. 

I can tell you from experience though, it makes sense because it's the depression talking.  I realize that it's insanely hard to separate something from you that seems to be a part of you but it really is the depression talking.  Depression roots itself into your deepest thoughts, your deepest memories, your fears, your personality and it corrupts them.  It's like a virus that you get on your computer - it starts as something small but before long data has been corrupted, pictures have been destroyed, documents that used to be in English are suddenly nothing but gibberish.  Eventually it worms its way into your operating system causing crashes, and eventually, the computer no longer works.  But I promise you it's worth fighting for. 

Depression is this multi-headed beast that takes a lot of coordination to fight and overcome.  If you're familiar with Greek mythology, think of the Hydra.  You cut off one head and two more grows back.  When you're fighting something with those properties that acts like that, it's easy to get overwhelmed.  It's easy to want to listen to this disease that is telling you that you're not worth fighting for.  If you look at depression as just something that people complain about, and when you have the mentality that it's just something you're complaining about, it diminishes it for what it really is.  It's a disease, just like brain cancer or clotted arteries.  And it can kill just as fast. 

You ARE worth fighting for.  You offer unique experiences, views, memories, opinions, and emotions to the World.  I don't even know you, but I can promise you you're worth fighting for to me.  Why?  Because you're you.  You offer something that only you can offer: YOU.[/b]  The same that I can only offer me, and everyone else can only offer them, you offer you.  You bring something to the table that nobody else in the WORLD can bring.  Of all 7 billion people that are on our little blue planet, there is only 1 of you.  You've heard the expression that you're one in a million?  Nah.  You're one in 7 billion. 

Ultimately I guess that's why suicides always weigh the most on me.  Because someone lost the battle with themselves and that most unique experience is no more.
For he who has truly lived never truly dies.

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 06:40:46 pm »
I tried many professionals and it doesn't seem to be working.  Also the common meds don't help me. Also with OCD that I am going through right now things have been difficult.

Thanks guys for your input.  I have been struggling with this since a while.

I think that temporarily praying for clear conscience and meditating about it is a good thing.  It is is hope, as brief as it may be.
For what it's worth, I did a lot of work with Kuan Yin before I felt like I even was worth trying to get help. Whatever you can do is better than nothing. If you're worried that you're not up to your deity's standards, ask her to send you to someone with a reputation for being all-loving and compassionate, someone you can trust is going to be okay with you, faults and all, because that's exactly what they're known for doing. That might help you get over this hump so you can get to the next hill.

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corrosivesquid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 06:59:08 pm »
I tried many professionals and it doesn't seem to be working.  Also the common meds don't help me. Also with OCD that I am going through right now things have been difficult.

Thanks guys for your input.  I have been struggling with this since a while.

I think that temporarily praying for clear conscience and meditating about it is a good thing.  It is is hope, as brief as it may be.

Like Jack mentioned, finding something to make you believe you are worth helping will get you to that next step and asking your deity to send you to someone who will really click for you and accept you for you with no judgement. Prayer and Meditation are good ways to banish the dark moods even if for a little while and if that's what gives you hope that it'll get better. Keep doing it!

I wish I could say therapy and Medication were a one stop cure all as soon as you start them. It takes time and sometimes multiple tries just like all things do. That's why they recommend doing both at the same time, therapy can help get you through those hard beginning stages of taking medication. I know it's hard, but asking for help on here was a wonderful first step. It was brave of you to do that, not everyone can.

rous54

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 02:45:46 pm »
Like Jack mentioned, finding something to make you believe you are worth helping will get you to that next step and asking your deity to send you to someone who will really click for you and accept you for you with no judgement. Prayer and Meditation are good ways to banish the dark moods even if for a little while and if that's what gives you hope that it'll get better. Keep doing it!

For some reason I believe that it was a message from the Goddess that enough is enough for my life.  Just to play the devil's advocate, why doesn't a deity stop us from dying if what is said is true that a deity never wishes harm on us?

How about I pray from now on that my conscience would be clear.  I think that also works.

corrosivesquid

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Re: Issue with a prayer
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 02:52:39 pm »


For some reason I believe that it was a message from the Goddess that enough is enough for my life.  Just to play the devil's advocate, why doesn't a deity stop us from dying if what is said is true that a deity never wishes harm on us?

Because all in all, we have the free will to end it. I don't believe the deities make choices for us and just hope we listen and make the right ones. I believe they don't stop us because it's our choice as a person with our own thoughts, ideas and autonomy.

If prayer helps you with these intruding thoughts, then please continue to do that.

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