collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?  (Read 3940 times)

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« on: March 19, 2012, 08:11:18 am »
I've been looking around the boards but I haven't found another topic quite like this. Forgive me if there is one and I just missed it.

Has anyone ever just felt like they *lost* their gods/goddesses? For years and years I was a faithful Wiccan and I worshipped to the Lord and Lady. Honestly, I'm not sure that was ever quite right for me to begin with, but I just so wanted something I could fit into. So I prayed and chanted, cast circle, called the quarters, worked with my tools -- you name it!

And I just do not feel the presence of the Lord and Lady. Or any lord and lady. I don't feel the presence of deity at all!

I feel a very deep connection to nature: all things earth, air, fire, water, plant, animal, mineral, stone. All things natural. But I just don't know about deity. I think I*want* to connect to and believe in deity, but I just never have. I absolutely believe in Spirit, the Akasha, but I don't see/feel/connect to the idea of deities, and I feel empty when I try to call upon deity. Because of all this, I've sort of stopped referring to myself as Wiccan and just started saying Pagan. For some reason, it seems important to me that I have a narrower definition of what I believe and/or practice.

I'm really hoping that others here can give me some insight and perspective. Thank you so much.

Rhyshadow

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 717
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 09:16:47 am »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46403
I've been looking around the boards but I haven't found another topic quite like this. Forgive me if there is one and I just missed it.

And I just do not feel the presence of the Lord and Lady. Or any lord and lady. I don't feel the presence of deity at all!

I feel a very deep connection to nature: all things earth, air, fire, water, plant, animal, mineral, stone. All things natural. But I just don't know about deity. I think I*want* to connect to and believe in deity, but I just never have. I absolutely believe in Spirit, the Akasha, but I don't see/feel/connect to the idea of deities, and I feel empty when I try to call upon deity. Because of all this, I've sort of stopped referring to myself as Wiccan and just started saying Pagan. For some reason, it seems important to me that I have a narrower definition of what I believe and/or practice.

I'm really hoping that others here can give me some insight and perspective. Thank you so much.

 
I don't think that Deity is necessary in the long run - you say you have a connection to all things natural - so maybe what you are is an Elementalist, connection to the Elements rather than to Deity.

Spiritually it can still be fulfilling, you just have to decide how you honor that connection and celebrate it.

And I don't think it narrows the definition of what you are - in fact, IMO, it widens it to encompass a lot more

Dezdura

  • Sr. Newbie
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 18
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 11:36:33 am »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46403


And I just do not feel the presence of the Lord and Lady. Or any lord and lady. I don't feel the presence of deity at all!



I see the Lady and Lord as metaphors for the masculine/feminine duality of the seasons. Other than that, it is just nature worship. In any listing of Wiccan categories, you will see categories listed which do not include any great significance put on the Lady/Lord other than that of a metaphor. There are also monotheist, and polytheist Wiccans. Some favor only an "earth mother" others favor many gods.

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 07:16:00 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;46408
I don't think that Deity is necessary in the long run - you say you have a connection to all things natural - so maybe what you are is an Elementalist, connection to the Elements rather than to Deity.

Spiritually it can still be fulfilling, you just have to decide how you honor that connection and celebrate it.

And I don't think it narrows the definition of what you are - in fact, IMO, it widens it to encompass a lot more

 
I have wondered about this. I guess it's just kind of hard to shake an idea or a label for yourself once you have it in your head. Oddly enough, I kind of *wanted* something narrower. I kind of wanted to be able to say, "Yes, I'm a ..." Fill in the blank. I'm not sure why I wanted that, or if i still want that. Maybe just so it would make it easier for me to identify as something. I really don't know.

I do very much love the elements, but I'm not sure where I stand yet on Elementals. I love observing the wheel of the year, especially when I'm with a group.

OH, I THINK THAT'S IT! I think the reason I wanted some kind of label is because I thought it would make it easier for me to practice with a group. I love the group dynamic; the feeling of community. I really think that's been it all along.

Thank you very, very much for your input, hon!

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 07:27:00 pm »
Quote from: Dezdura;46428
I see the Lady and Lord as metaphors for the masculine/feminine duality of the seasons. Other than that, it is just nature worship. In any listing of Wiccan categories, you will see categories listed which do not include any great significance put on the Lady/Lord other than that of a metaphor. There are also monotheist, and polytheist Wiccans. Some favor only an "earth mother" others favor many gods.

 
Very true. I apologize because I should have been more clear. I tended to follow more along the lines of Scott Cunningham. I know not everyone agrees with him, but overall I found that was what worked for me.

For a long time I guess I tried to see or worship the lord/lady as actual, physical manifestations of Gods. I think I *wanted* that, like the way someone wants a revelations or sorts. I've heard and read when many Wiccans, and others, see the Lord and Lady as symbolic only. That makes sense, I can understand that, it's just something I'm struggling with on a personal level because I wanted actual gods. I'm adjusting to the idea of symbolism, but I find it difficult to pray to. I wonder if this is something others struggle with.

Thank you very much for your thoughts, hon!

Rhyshadow

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 717
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 07:28:22 pm »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46491
I have wondered about this. I guess it's just kind of hard to shake an idea or a label for yourself once you have it in your head. Oddly enough, I kind of *wanted* something narrower. I kind of wanted to be able to say, "Yes, I'm a ..." Fill in the blank. I'm not sure why I wanted that, or if i still want that. Maybe just so it would make it easier for me to identify as something. I really don't know.

I do very much love the elements, but I'm not sure where I stand yet on Elementals. I love observing the wheel of the year, especially when I'm with a group.

OH, I THINK THAT'S IT! I think the reason I wanted some kind of label is because I thought it would make it easier for me to practice with a group. I love the group dynamic; the feeling of community. I really think that's been it all along.

Thank you very, very much for your input, hon!

 
Another possibility is that you might want to look into Druidism or Celtic Reconstructionism - both honor nature and deal with the spiritual side of that

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 08:28:44 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;46494
Another possibility is that you might want to look into Druidism or Celtic Reconstructionism - both honor nature and deal with the spiritual side of that

 
I will research those more. I know some of Druidism, but really know nothing of Celtic Reconstructionsim. Thank you.  :)

Marilyn/Absentminded

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • *
  • Posts: 975
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 09:13:40 pm »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46493
I've heard and read when many Wiccans, and others, see the Lord and Lady as symbolic only.


According to the BTW Wiccans (the originals) we've had on the board, saying 'the Lord and Lady' is code for 'we have two very specific deities but their names are oathbound and not to be said in public'.  The whole 'all gods are one god' kind of symbolism seems to be more from Dion Fortune than from traditional Wicca.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 10:18:07 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;46509
According to the BTW Wiccans (the originals) we've had on the board, saying 'the Lord and Lady' is code for 'we have two very specific deities but their names are oathbound and not to be said in public'.  The whole 'all gods are one god' kind of symbolism seems to be more from Dion Fortune than from traditional Wicca.

Absent


I've read of that but not run into it personally. I came from a very small town and there was absolutely nothing in the way of covens. I've since then moved to a much bigger place and sometimes celebrate holidays with a general Pagan group. That's nice and I very much appreciate having that. I've never been in anything that's required me to be oathbound.

I don't personally believe in keeping my deities secret, if I'm going to have deities at all. I know some Wiccans do, and I can respect and appreciate that, but it just wouldn't be for me.  I practiced as a solitary really because I had no choice; there just wasn't anyone else where I lived. But I love the atmosphere and energy of a group when I can find it, and I've been lucky enough to find one where I live now. It's very general and has never required oaths of any kind.

monsnoleedra

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 957
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 06:04:24 am »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46403
..I feel a very deep connection to nature: all things earth, air, fire, water, plant, animal, mineral, stone. All things natural. But I just don't know about deity. I think I*want* to connect to and believe in deity, but I just never have. I absolutely believe in Spirit, the Akasha, but I don't see/feel/connect to the idea of deities, and I feel empty when I try to call upon deity. Because of all this, I've sort of stopped referring to myself as Wiccan and just started saying Pagan. For some reason, it seems important to me that I have a narrower definition of what I believe and/or practice. ..


Your description really sounds like Animist in nature, possibly Totemist to a degree.  Basically they (Animist) see all things as living.  They most times relate to the Green Peoples or Standing Ones, The Winged Ones, The Fined ones, etc.  Under many Native American traditions you see where there are gods / goddess that make up the respective nations divinity but they also recognize the great unknown.  Names such as "Spirit", "Gitchi Manitou", "Wankan Tanka", etc that identify that which is beyond divinity and is the unknown or unknowable force.

Many that identify themselves as Shamanic practitioners, Hedge or Green Witches or similiar hold many Animist / Totemist traits in their beliefs and practices.
 
These are not my descriptions but written by another practitioner who gave me permission to use them.

 There are two styles of belief in animism:
One) A belief that natural objects are inhabited by spirits.
Each rock, tree, and cloud may have its own unique spirit. Individuality in spirit as well as in the material world.

Two) All things in nature may be thought of as having the same spirit. The belief here is a ‘part of the whole’ ideals. All are a part of one divine entity. This version of animism was characteristic of many Native American cultures.

In both forms of animism, the spirits are thought of as having identifiable personalities and other characteristics such as gender. A belief in a powerful, mature, or protective, personality. The spirits may be benevolent, malevolent, or neutral. They can be lovable, terrifying, or even mischievous. They can interact with humans and can be pleased or irritated by human actions. As such, people must be concerned about them and will likely try to avoid displeasing them.
"Mother nature" is an example of giving a persona to the concept of nature spirit/s.


The second is Animatism:

It is a belief in a non physical essence or force or power or whatever you want to call it. For those who hold this belief, the power is usually impersonal, unseen, and potentially everywhere. It is neither good nor evil, but it is powerful and dangerous if misused. It is something like electricity or "the force" in the Star Wars movies. This Star wars analogy is commonly used to describe this force, so don’t laugh at me for using it because I already did that!!

Among the Polynesian cultures of the Southern Pacific Ocean, this power is called "mana". For them it is a force that is in all objects, plants, and animals (including people) . Some things or people have more of it than others and can be potentially dangerous. For example, a chief may have so much of it that he must be carried around all of the time. If he were to walk on the ground, some residual amounts of his mana may remain in his footprints to harm ordinary people if they later stepped on them. Volcanoes were thought to have varying amounts of mana and thus they had different levels of the threat as to their ability to destroy.

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 05:10:42 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;46539
Your description really sounds like Animist in nature, possibly Totemist to a degree.  Basically they (Animist) see all things as living.  They most times relate to the Green Peoples or Standing Ones, The Winged Ones, The Fined ones, etc.


Well, that's very much me!

Quote
Two) All things in nature may be thought of as having the same spirit. The belief here is a ‘part of the whole’ ideals. All are a part of one divine entity. This version of animism was characteristic of many Native American cultures. In both forms of animism, the spirits are thought of as having identifiable personalities and other characteristics such as gender. A belief in a powerful, mature, or protective, personality. The spirits may be benevolent, malevolent, or neutral. They can be lovable, terrifying, or even mischievous. They can interact with humans and can be pleased or irritated by human actions. As such, people must be concerned about them and will likely try to avoid displeasing them. "Mother nature" is an example of giving a persona to the concept of nature spirit/s.


This isn't quite what I believe or feel, but it's definitely worth looking into. It's very interesting.

Quote
The second is Animatism:

It is a belief in a non physical essence or force or power or whatever you want to call it. For those who hold this belief, the power is usually impersonal, unseen, and potentially everywhere. It is neither good nor evil, but it is powerful and dangerous if misused. It is something like electricity or "the force" in the Star Wars movies. This Star wars analogy is commonly used to describe this force, so don’t laugh at me for using it because I already did that!!


I would never make fun of anyone here, especially when they're talking about something I wholeheartedly believe in! I completely believe in the idea of some binding force. Whether it's called Mana, energy, The Force, Akasha, whatever it is... I believe when this binding web is strong, so are all living things strong. When this binding force is weak, so are all living things weak. And I think it's what allows for psychic connection. I think that why you can sometimes pick up the phone and know who's on the other end even before you say hello (caller ID totally doesn't count!) :p Manmade things aren't alive but I think energies from humans/animals/plants can be imprinted into buildings or crafts, and can be later felt by people who are sensitive to them.

You've given me a great deal to think about. I really appreciate it! Thank you!

PetitAlbert

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 101
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 08:05:59 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;46539


 There are two styles of belief in animism:
One) A belief that natural objects are inhabited by spirits.
Each rock, tree, and cloud may have its own unique spirit. Individuality in spirit as well as in the material world.


Cheers for the word "animism". I've seen elements of it in all sorts of new agey things, but never as its own distinct path. What with google, knowledge isn't about so much what one knows as knowing how to find information, and I'll be chasing books on it as soon as possible :)
"We all have something to learn, and something to teach."
30 Days of Magic: take the challenge now!

Petit Albert: This witch\'s blog
Book of Protective Magic by Albert - free 20 page bookzine download

GaiaDianne

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 94
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 09:25:22 pm »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46403
I've been looking around the boards but I haven't found another topic quite like this. Forgive me if there is one and I just missed it.

Has anyone ever just felt like they *lost* their gods/goddesses? For years and years I was a faithful Wiccan and I worshipped to the Lord and Lady. Honestly, I'm not sure that was ever quite right for me to begin with, but I just so wanted something I could fit into. So I prayed and chanted, cast circle, called the quarters, worked with my tools -- you name it!

And I just do not feel the presence of the Lord and Lady. Or any lord and lady. I don't feel the presence of deity at all!

I feel a very deep connection to nature: all things earth, air, fire, water, plant, animal, mineral, stone. All things natural. But I just don't know about deity. I think I*want* to connect to and believe in deity, but I just never have. I absolutely believe in Spirit, the Akasha, but I don't see/feel/connect to the idea of deities, and I feel empty when I try to call upon deity. Because of all this, I've sort of stopped referring to myself as Wiccan and just started saying Pagan. For some reason, it seems important to me that I have a narrower definition of what I believe and/or practice.

I'm really hoping that others here can give me some insight and perspective. Thank you so much.

 

GAIA REPLYING:

You've already received so many good suggestions that seem to be helping, i'm not sure i can add anything helpful, but i did want to just offer this:  

Many who have started on a Spiritual path do come to what is often called the "Dark Night of the Soul", which just as it sounds, can be a painful, frustrating and difficult experience.  It can feel like you've "lost your Gods", lost your ability to feel anything, really.....

But fortunately if you Google the topic/ phrase, you'll find *lots* of info -- books and internet articles -- from classic, metaphysical, spiritual and religious discussions on what it is and various historical examples, to suggestions on how to deal with it.  

And please, one more thing: Be sure to come back and tell us about your experience(s) dealing with this; i'm sure many here would benefit from hearing your (more complete and detailed) story!

 Good Luck and Blessed Be ~ Gaia

earth_dragon

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 161
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 11:17:49 pm »
Quote from: GaiaDianne;47703
GAIA REPLYING:

You've already received so many good suggestions that seem to be helping, i'm not sure i can add anything helpful, but i did want to just offer this:  

Many who have started on a Spiritual path do come to what is often called the "Dark Night of the Soul", which just as it sounds, can be a painful, frustrating and difficult experience.  It can feel like you've "lost your Gods", lost your ability to feel anything, really.....

But fortunately if you Google the topic/ phrase, you'll find *lots* of info -- books and internet articles -- from classic, metaphysical, spiritual and religious discussions on what it is and various historical examples, to suggestions on how to deal with it.  

And please, one more thing: Be sure to come back and tell us about your experience(s) dealing with this; i'm sure many here would benefit from hearing your (more complete and detailed) story!

 Good Luck and Blessed Be ~ Gaia

 
Thank you so much for this! As it turns out, maybe I just needed a really good boost in the arm. I have had something happen. I should make a new post to explain about it. I firmly believe a lot of it has to do with the energy and encouragement I've been getting from here, tho.  :)

outlaw393

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 419
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Has anyone ere *lost* their gods?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 12:32:24 am »
Quote from: earth_dragon;46403
Has anyone ever just felt like they *lost* their gods/goddesses?

 
I can sort of relate to this, having again struggling with defining my own beliefs once again in deity. I'm sort of going through a crisis of faith, so to speak, as the gods (well, all but one, heh) have left me.

The gods I have followed for years have left, or have at least withdrawn right now. I suspect however that this is temporary.

What's strange however is that there is one god who is popping his head in once in a while who I have never followed, and I'm not exactly sure why. I have yet to figure out exactly what he wants with me. :eek:
Conformity is the death of individualism

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
2135 Views
Last post September 12, 2011, 10:11:01 pm
by Malkin
17 Replies
3604 Views
Last post September 08, 2011, 09:37:17 pm
by Marilyn/Absentminded
54 Replies
5370 Views
Last post October 09, 2014, 07:23:40 pm
by Indigo Cardinal
5 Replies
1150 Views
Last post September 15, 2013, 11:33:28 am
by Jack
11 Replies
2685 Views
Last post May 30, 2015, 09:25:35 am
by Caleb Oak

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 44
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall