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Author Topic: Ganesh says "You are at the door."  (Read 6423 times)

Sharysa

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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 05:39:20 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;83486
I just realized you stated that your past-self's mother was black, not Native. Please disregard that sentence.

Okay, no worries about the first three sentences of my recent post.

Edit: Aaaand Martha finally said that no, she's not coming back because I need her up there more than I need her here.

According to her, "It took you long enough."
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 05:42:03 pm by Sharysa »
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2012, 10:39:01 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;83391
The problem is that I HAVEN'T been trying to catch 'em all. I only opened myself up to one Filipino deity (Tatay), my main three in the Tuatha De (Ogma, the Morrigan, and Aengus), and my main group of ancestors (who definitely know when to say hi and when to leave me alone), and I had no idea why everyone else was randomly coming up and saying hi.

 
Have you ever thought about saying no? Or would having fewer than 20 gods constantly meddling in your life somehow reduce your importance?
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Faemon

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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 12:55:30 am »
Quote from: Morag;84492
Have you ever thought about saying no? Or would having fewer than 20 gods constantly meddling in your life somehow reduce your importance?

Hey, sometimes, for some people, it gets crowded. That doesn't make a person special, as pointed out, it usually makes a person tired. But, I personally think some exhaustion is worth at least hearing them out, before saying "no." The gods should be too busy/wise to constantly hang around for the sole purpose of inflating somebody's ego (or even stick around, if an inflating ego is what they're witnessing.) Most gods should also have enough experience as to when to back off, but I would think they drop by and stick around in the first place for Reasons that would be missed by shutting them down with a "no".

It would be a different story if you believed that these weren't gods at all. The thing is, it is kind of the dedicant's prerogative to interpret their experience as spiritually as they will. And to voice it.

...Which is why I'll voice my opinion that (based on the descriptions given, contrasted with my own experiences) that's not the spirit plane, and those are not gods. But, I don't think that Sharysa is consciously fabricating experiences to see how gullible the pagan community can be, or to ego trip on how much verisimilitude her pagan-themed fiction writing has, either.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:58:31 am by Faemon »
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 01:25:09 am »
Quote from: triple_entendre;84507
Hey, sometimes, for some people, it gets crowded. That doesn't make a person special, as pointed out, it usually makes a person tired. But, I personally think some exhaustion is worth at least hearing them out, before saying "no." The gods should be too busy/wise to constantly hang around for the sole purpose of inflating somebody's ego (or even stick around, if an inflating ego is what they're witnessing. The gods should also have enough experience as to when to back off.)


Having a relationship with a god is like having that random friend who shows up on your doorstep at one in the morning with a suitcase. They never call in advance and you never know how long they're going to occupy the spare bedroom, but they're important to you so you make it work. Sometimes they show up at really shitty times and you want to tear out your hair because you've got a billion other things going on that you need to pay attention to, but even though they showed up unannounced they're still a guest and still your friend and you have to make it work. They might be the sort of house guest that does the dishes when you're at work, or they might be the sort who drinks your best bottle of wine without you.

If I agree to a relationship with a god, I am accepting that they can drop in unannounced and use my guest bedroom whenever they please. Obviously, I am not going to make this arrangement with everyone who knocks on my door. Anyone can show up on my doorstep. There is a reason that doors have locks. There is a reason doors have chains. Hell, there is a reason for doors. We use them to decide who comes and goes, and if we just let everyone come in who turns up on the doorstep then we might as well just take the damn door off the hinge and stuff it away, and prepare for a life of whoever the fuck pleases trampling up and down the stairs and raiding the fridge at their whim.

It is not a god's responsibility to close the damn door. It is not a god's responsibility to say, "hey, human, you've had too many house guests this month, you should lock up." If a person wants their boundaries respected they need to set some fucking boundaries.

And honestly, there's this underlying assumption I'm finding in a lot of places lately that just because the gods know something or other about humanity, that they'll always do what's in humanity's best interests. Bullshit. We might be 'children' to some of them, but I think to most of them we are tools of varying levels of usefulness. And not every tool is designed to last, even if taken care of.
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Faemon

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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 04:47:54 am »
Quote from: Juni;84508
It is not a god's responsibility to close the damn door. It is not a god's responsibility to say, "hey, human, you've had too many house guests this month, you should lock up."
If they want someone's exclusive attention for long enough to get what they want done, then it is their responsibility to say that. If they don't like that their dedicant has the psyche of a mansion with multiple guest rooms and loves to throw parties, then the god can just leave.

Quote
And honestly, there's this underlying assumption I'm finding in a lot of places lately that just because the gods know something or other about humanity, that they'll always do what's in humanity's best interests. Bullshit.
I don't see how being the type who doesn't give a god the boot until the point that the god shows not to have its host's best interest at heart, is necessarily irresponsible. It's an individual standard of responsibility.

And I'm not saying that the seer or dedicant has no agency, just that the gods do and just by my experience They don't call on someone unless it's important and if you shut them out then you might miss something, so my personal balance would err towards hearing them out first. They might not always have someone's best interests as a priority, but they don't get so reputable by being so careless. (Unless their reputation is for being careless, in which case I missed something.)

To bring us back to the OP's point of contention, which was:
Quote from: Sharysa;83287
Has anyone else who believes in reincarnation experienced this?
...Actually, I'm not sure anymore what the point of contention specifically was.

But it didn't seem to be necessarily complaining about having to juggle animal-ancestral, Philippine, Hindu, and now Welsh pantheons with the Irish. So, "Cut them off" seemed kind of left-field advice. Unless it was more, "If you don't buy into Hindu cosmology and don't want to hear a sales pitch then tell Ganesh to GTFO sooner not later, because He's getting all up in your Prana uninvited and that's just not right," -- which I still judge as unwarranted rudeness to Ganesh, but understandable.

I'd also understand if the advice meant, "Ugh, you are such a Mary Sue. If you only mentioned the few significant gods in your spiritual practice, you'd be more sympathetic and believable. Shut up about your newest snowflake detail already."

But if it meant, "The gods are too stupid to have anything important to say, and they're definitely too stupid to know when someone's head is overcrowded, so you've got to consciously shut them out-- you won't be missing anything, and if you keep letting them in to hear them out, then you automatically deserve to be driven to madness and gouge your eyes and ears out in a futile effort find some semblance of peace," then I disagree.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 04:50:47 am by Faemon »
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2012, 10:56:43 am »
Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
If they want someone's exclusive attention for long enough to get what they want done, then it is their responsibility to say that. If they don't like that their dedicant has the psyche of a mansion with multiple guest rooms and loves to throw parties, then the god can just leave.


Isn't it possible that a god or goddess might want the person to figure out they've got too much going on?

Just my personal opinion, but when you have a lot of gods in your "mansion", guess what? It becomes really freakin' hard to hear anybody's voice. It's personal choice if the host of the mansion wants to hold lots of parties, but it's also his/her responsibility to listen to the guests. I agree a god can just leave if no one's hearing him. It's just him leaving because nobody could hear him over the noise leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Quote

I don't see how being the type who doesn't give a god the boot until the point that the god shows not to have its host's best interest at heart, is necessarily irresponsible. It's an individual standard of responsibility.


It's irresponsible because the more gods you let in, the harder it is to give each the attention deserved. Again, you're correct that a god can leave if he's not happy with the situation, but is that how you really want to part ways with anybody, let alone a deity?

I guess if you're not particularly god-bothered, an open-door policy works. But if you tend to have a lot of deities come knocking, you have to start making decisions.


Quote
But it didn't seem to be necessarily complaining about having to juggle animal-ancestral, Philippine, Hindu, and now Welsh pantheons with the Irish. So, "Cut them off" seemed kind of left-field advice. Unless it was more, "If you don't buy into Hindu cosmology and don't want to hear a sales pitch then tell Ganesh to GTFO sooner not later, because He's getting all up in your Prana uninvited and that's just not right," -- which I still judge as unwarranted rudeness to Ganesh, but understandable.


I think it's because having so many gods drawn to you from so many different pantheons is a possible red flag.

Again, at some point you have to apply door control.

Quote
But if it meant, "The gods are too stupid to have anything important to say, and they're definitely too stupid to know when someone's head is overcrowded, so you've got to consciously shut them out-- you won't be missing anything, and if you keep letting them in to hear them out, then you automatically deserve to be driven to madness and gouge your eyes and ears out in a futile effort find some semblance of peace," then I disagree.

 
I don't think anyone was getting at that. And I don't think being stupid has anything to do with a god being able to judge whether or not someone has too much on their plate. Some of them do, and they back off, sure. There are others who figure if you're opening up to them, then you have a place for them, and they expect to have that place.

Again, door control. I can't repeat this enough. It's not that your shutting anyone out in the sense of, "begone, unclean deity from another pantheon!" It's more, "I could invite you in, but it's so crowded in here you just wouldn't get the attention you deserve."
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stephyjh

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Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2012, 12:50:08 pm »
Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
If they want someone's exclusive attention for long enough to get what they want done, then it is their responsibility to say that. If they don't like that their dedicant has the psyche of a mansion with multiple guest rooms and loves to throw parties, then the god can just leave.


I don't see how being the type who doesn't give a god the boot until the point that the god shows not to have its host's best interest at heart, is necessarily irresponsible. It's an individual standard of responsibility.

And I'm not saying that the seer or dedicant has no agency, just that the gods do and just by my experience They don't call on someone unless it's important and if you shut them out then you might miss something, so my personal balance would err towards hearing them out first. They might not always have someone's best interests as a priority, but they don't get so reputable by being so careless. (Unless their reputation is for being careless, in which case I missed something.)

To bring us back to the OP's point of contention, which was:

...Actually, I'm not sure anymore what the point of contention specifically was.

But it didn't seem to be necessarily complaining about having to juggle animal-ancestral, Philippine, Hindu, and now Welsh pantheons with the Irish. So, "Cut them off" seemed kind of left-field advice. Unless it was more, "If you don't buy into Hindu cosmology and don't want to hear a sales pitch then tell Ganesh to GTFO sooner not later, because He's getting all up in your Prana uninvited and that's just not right," -- which I still judge as unwarranted rudeness to Ganesh, but understandable.

I'd also understand if the advice meant, "Ugh, you are such a Mary Sue. If you only mentioned the few significant gods in your spiritual practice, you'd be more sympathetic and believable. Shut up about your newest snowflake detail already."

But if it meant, "The gods are too stupid to have anything important to say, and they're definitely too stupid to know when someone's head is overcrowded, so you've got to consciously shut them out-- you won't be missing anything, and if you keep letting them in to hear them out, then you automatically deserve to be driven to madness and gouge your eyes and ears out in a futile effort find some semblance of peace," then I disagree.

I don't think anyone was saying the gods are stupid.
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2012, 01:30:58 pm »
Quote from: Shine;84542
It's irresponsible because the more gods you let in, the harder it is to give each the attention deserved. Again, you're correct that a god can leave if he's not happy with the situation, but is that how you really want to part ways with anybody, let alone a deity?
[...]
I guess if you're not particularly god-bothered, an open-door policy works. But if you tend to have a lot of deities come knocking, you have to start making decisions.
[...]
I think it's because having so many gods drawn to you from so many different pantheons is a possible red flag.

 
There's also the apparent lack of Sharysa actually doing anything for the gods. Every post I read from her is about how the gods and the ancestors and the Joe Random Spirit are all so attracted to her, and want to help her, and why are they so interested in her, and hey she read about soul retrieval on the back of a book and then just did it by blinking, or whatever, and then a dragon is after her and her ancestors because of her inner fire, etc etc etc.

It reads like she's got a posse of uber-special spirits who just live to fawn over her every move.

The only thing I've read from her on what she actually does for them -- making it, you know, a reciprocal relationship -- is stuff about taking care of her hair.

IME, the gods want more than that.

(And yes, I suppose she could just be leaving out details again...because that's something she's prone to do, even within the several-thousand-word essay type posts she writes.)  

Quote from: Shine;84542
Again, door control. I can't repeat this enough. It's not that your shutting anyone out in the sense of, "begone, unclean deity from another pantheon!" It's more, "I could invite you in, but it's so crowded in here you just wouldn't get the attention you deserve."

 
This is pretty much what I'm getting at.

If you have 20 gods or whatever tugging at your sleeves constantly (and I do mean being god-bothered, not going out and finding them yourself -- that's a different thing) how on earth do you get anything done?

I have four deities that I'm god-bothered by. Four. That's a lot. I work full-time, I'm a student, and I have chronic illness and a spinal injury. Yet I have to find time for Them in that schedule.

It's taken me five years to get to the point where my three main deities are getting the attention They deserve from me. The attention They've deserved from the beginning, because They have done so much for me.

And I thought I was tired before? Hah. I'm honestly surprised these days that I have the energy to get out of bed, let alone do Their work.

Hecate is being patient. She is waiting for me to get my shit together w/r/t the other three. But She won't be patient for forever, and sometime before Spring Mysteries next year I have to make an honest start on doing Her work as well. On giving Her the attention She deserves.

It's like Thanksgiving dinner in my house and I don't have any food, so I have to make a turkey out of waffles for the family.

If I hadn't exercised door control with the other deities who have tugged at my sleeves -- and yes, there have been others, and some I continue to venerate on a much smaller basis -- if I hadn't said, "I'm sorry, I can't let You in to the capacity I've let these four in, because They've pretty much drank all the booze and I've not had a chance to make another run for any, and I won't be able to give You what You need," then I'd be drowning in deities.
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stephyjh

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Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2012, 02:06:19 pm »
Quote from: Morag;84561

It's like Thanksgiving dinner in my house and I don't have any food, so I have to make a turkey out of waffles for the family.

If I hadn't exercised door control with the other deities who have tugged at my sleeves -- and yes, there have been others, and some I continue to venerate on a much smaller basis -- if I hadn't said, "I'm sorry, I can't let You in to the capacity I've let these four in, because They've pretty much drank all the booze and I've not had a chance to make another run for any, and I won't be able to give You what You need," then I'd be drowning in deities.

This. Exactly. I only have one who really owns me, and one other whom I am not allowed to ignore when she shows up--my other deity relationships are either transactional or on a very casual basis. If I had more (and others do swing by, but they don't live here), I would go crazy.
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2012, 02:30:21 pm »
Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
If they want someone's exclusive attention for long enough to get what they want done, then it is their responsibility to say that. If they don't like that their dedicant has the psyche of a mansion with multiple guest rooms and loves to throw parties, then the god can just leave.


I think that depends on what you mean by dedicant, here. Because I'm reading it as a person who has taken a vow of some sort- explicitly and specifically dedicated their time and effort- and I suspect you just mean a follower, someone who has decided to honor x deity by word and/or action. The kind of relationship between a dedicant and a god is different than that of a follower and a god, and the responsibilities are different.

And I think in most cases if a deity is not getting what they want out of a person, they will leave, eventually. But personally, I'd rather turn away a god at the door saying "I'm sorry, I am unable or unwilling to engage in a relationship right now," than have my shit falling apart around me and watch someone give up in disappointment.

Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
And I'm not saying that the seer or dedicant has no agency, just that the gods do and just by my experience They don't call on someone unless it's important and if you shut them out then you might miss something, so my personal balance would err towards hearing them out first.


That is life. It is impossible to experience everything there is to experience. If one is looking for a particular experience, then sure, they should keep their eyes open to new opportunities. But if one is perpetually looking for whatever new interesting thing that could come along they are going to miss all of the interesting things around them that make up a life.

I have what some people would consider an overlarge personal pantheon. (Myself included.) It is largely a case of "I don't know, man, I didn't do it." [1] It happened over a too-short period of time, because I went from shouting 'la la la I can't hear you' with my fingers in my ears to feeling guilty and letting everyone outside the door in all at once. Luckily the only promises I made were that I would do what I should once I could; likewise, luckily I closed the damn door.

There are so many interesting deities out there. I'll admit I have magpie inclinations- I want to honor everybody, I want to know everybody (or at least say hello.) But the reality is, every moment I turn my eyes to look at something shiny outside my doorstep is a moment I'm not taking to take care of the house I am living in. I cannot live a fulfilling life with my gods if I'm always waiting for something newer or shinier or more interesting to waltz over the threshold.

I think it is irresponsible to stretch oneself too thin; not necessarily to the gods, but to oneself. Part of owning yourself is knowing your limits.

Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
They might not always have someone's best interests as a priority, but they don't get so reputable by being so careless. (Unless their reputation is for being careless, in which case I missed something.)


Carelessness has nothing to do with it. I would direct you to most of Greek mythology with human/divine interaction: Daphne and Kassandra come readily to mind. Hell, Prometheus got screwed for giving us fire. And that's just the Greeks.


Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
To bring us back to the OP's point of contention, which was:

...Actually, I'm not sure anymore what the point of contention specifically was.


Nor do I, as I haven't read it. I was replying specifically to your post, which is why I quoted it.

Quote from: triple_entendre;84516
But if it meant, "The gods are too stupid to have anything important to say, and they're definitely too stupid to know when someone's head is overcrowded, so you've got to consciously shut them out-- you won't be missing anything, and if you keep letting them in to hear them out, then you automatically deserve to be driven to madness and gouge your eyes and ears out in a futile effort find some semblance of peace," then I disagree.


I don't believe I said any of that, with the exception of consciously knowing one's own boundaries and enforcing them when necessary.
 
[1] See Kiya's 'On Eclecticism' essay.
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2012, 02:38:03 pm »
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2012, 05:36:54 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;83287
Has anyone else who believes in reincarnation experienced this? My medicine-woman said that she's met someone from several past-lives, so I know it's possible; I'm just wondering if anyone's gotten a heads-up first. Especially one as blatant as this.

Everyone just treats this in such a matter-of-fact way that I'm guessing it's the idea of reincarnation itself that I'm not used to, at least not on a personal or cultural level.


First off let me say that I truly understand and sympathize with the criticisms of your posts, and I think they're valid and useful opinions that you should take into consideration. That being said, I also find it interesting to explore the themes in your posts and I chose to believe that they're very real to you.

So.

You need to harness all of this randomness. Some anthropologist studies have claimed that shamanism is a case of mental illness that is put to use in it's cultural context. The use of mental illness here doesn't mean that there isn't a spiritual or meaningful value to the experiences, but what we deem an illness is a skill and talent useful to shamanism. In shamanic cultures, someone who begins to display episodes of mental "illness" is taken under the wing of the shaman and trained to use that gift in a culturally appropriate way. The voices, urges, hallucinations etc are harnassed within a  framework that is productive to the community. They don't just flail about.

I'm not claiming you're a shaman (or mentally ill). But you're definitely flailing. Without any constructive or useful purpose.

Mental illness also has a cross-cultural significance to angry ancestors. Psychic attacks/persistant bothering is seen as a punishment by the dead when crimes against the family are committed. Your spiritual life won't begin to stabilize until you find out what they want from you and yours and how to atone. Your events seem mostly ego-centered so I doubt that you're actually exploring the intricate fabric of your ancestral otherworld, and so the symbols/messages you're receiving are probably only ego relevant rather than spiritually relevant. Which is a big reason why they probably don't resonate with others.
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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2012, 06:11:37 pm »
Quote from: triple_entendre;84507

But, I don't think that Sharysa is consciously fabricating experiences to see how gullible the pagan community can be, or to ego trip on how much verisimilitude her pagan-themed fiction writing has, either.


Funny, 'cause that's exactly how read these posts now. Fabrications and fiction with a healthy dose of speshul snowflakeism thrown in for good measure. As always, YMMV.

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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2012, 10:58:19 pm »
Updates: The Broadway Spring Awakening cast showed up. Broadway-Wendla is Eriu, and I finally asked her why the hell everyone keeps showing up. She told me that "You need help, but you aren't asking for it."

Then I asked why they'd show up if I WASN'T asking them for help and had in fact closed off multiple times, and she told me, "You want us to leave you alone, but you need help."

Quote from: Juniperberry;84608
I'm not claiming you're a shaman (or mentally ill). But you're definitely flailing. Without any constructive or useful purpose.

I've been flailing a lot less since I accepted Eriu's thing about "I need spiritual help Versus PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE."

Also, it's been two days and things are... normal, I guess? No one's had their skin stolen and worn by an imposter.

Quote
Mental illness also has a cross-cultural significance to angry ancestors. Psychic attacks/persistant bothering is seen as a punishment by the dead when crimes against the family are committed. Your spiritual life won't begin to stabilize until you find out what they want from you and yours and how to atone.

But the ancestors AREN'T angry with me. They came because they wanted to reconnect and fix all the broken parts of my soul/mind(?). The closest they came to angry was when I made plans for running away because I was fed up with things, and they went "NONONONONO THAT WILL FUCK EVERYTHING UP."

They also keep going back to three main subjects:

1) Shit happens for no reason, so stop trying to find one.

2) Most people aren't bad, so please don't build a tower and hide from them.

3) You can't go back to normal. But your efforts are admirable.

Quote
Your events seem mostly ego-centered so I doubt that you're actually exploring the intricate fabric of your ancestral otherworld, and so the symbols/messages you're receiving are probably only ego relevant rather than spiritually relevant. Which is a big reason why they probably don't resonate with others.

There is a LOT more stuff about the spiritual world on my blog. I just don't talk about it here because it either doesn't make me panic, or it's been explained by the gods or my medicine-woman.

And on the matter of giving the gods things, I give them offerings at breakfast now. I've also made Brighid's cross and given Finn some of my hair.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 11:08:13 pm by Sharysa »
On hiatus, but might pop in now and then. Just making it official.

My blog. 40% normal, 60% spiritual, 500% details.

Nachtigall

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Re: Ganesh says "You are at the door."
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 07:00:05 am »
Quote from: Juni;84569

Carelessness has nothing to do with it. I would direct you to most of Greek mythology with human/divine interaction: Daphne and Kassandra come readily to mind. Hell, Prometheus got screwed for giving us fire. And that's just the Greeks.

 
Cassandra is actually a good example here. She accepted the god's gift, but refused to give him anything it return, despite her initial promises. The point here, it's important to make sure whether you would be able to do anything the gods may want from you, and if not (which is immensely difficult with so much deities wanting your attention), be honest about it from the very beginning.

Sharysa, I've read some posts on your blog. A lot of deities from different pantheons do things for you in your visions - help you fight off monsters, heal your "astral" wounds, teaching you, acting as your personal therapist - all for no apparent reasons, just because you may need their help, and without asking anything in return. While such behavior is understandable with your ancestors (after all, they have their own interest in your well-being - and even that, some offerings most certainly wouldn't hurt), the fact that the gods decide to be so active in your life, and be content with only some offerings during breakfast... have you thought about their reasons for it?

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