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Author Topic: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?  (Read 1889 times)

Altair

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Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« on: October 19, 2018, 09:10:25 pm »
I figured, for those of us who susbscribe to the Western esoteric tradition of the four elements plus spirit, spelling out the connections you make for each element might be a useful exercise where we might gain insights from each other. When we did air, it became clear that even our directional correspondences varied, so let's throw this wide open: What resonates with fire for you?

For me, my directional association is the traditional for those of us in northern temperate latitudes: Fire is south. The arc of the sun through the sky is southward, and as one travels south, it gets warmer. Also, I'm of the fire = wands and staffs camp.

But that's where tradition ends for me. My understanding of the nature of fire is unconventional; where most identify it as Will, I see it more as Drive: the energy to put behind one's efforts. Will for me is a fuzzy blend of mental determination, which for me is more air, and the energy to get things done, which is fire. So there's a bit of elemental bleed-through there.

I can't even remember what the traditional sense is for fire, because to me it's unmistakably smell. (Tradition puts that in air. No!) The acrid smell of smoke, the delicious smell of cooking (heat excites molecules, which is why everything is smellier in summer), the heady smell of incense...all of this pertains to fire.

I have no animal associations with fire, since for me mythical beasts don't enter into this picture.

Finally, the musical instruments of fire are brass instruments. That's a no-brainer.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:13:33 pm by Altair »
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Hariti

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2018, 06:15:41 pm »
I figured, for those of us who susbscribe to the Western esoteric tradition of the four elements plus spirit, spelling out the connections you make for each element might be a useful exercise where we might gain insights from each other.

I'm not from the Western Esoteric Tradition, but rather from the Eastern Esoteric Tradition. However, the concept of the primal elements, as well as the fifth element, is also present in the eastern tradition.

So, I think I'm going to start answering these questions from my own Eastern-informed perspective, and see how it compares to the responses other people give!

Regarding Fire, my personal directional association with fire is west rather than south. That's not so much a Hindu thing though, I think, so much as an American thing. The Eastern USA, even in the South where I live experiences all four seasons, with regular snowfall in the winter.

The Western USA, on the other hand, doesn't get much cold weather except in the mountains. It's a rare thing indeed when you find snow in Vegas or LA (though it does happen). It's also the direction of the firery orange sunset, and so I associate it with fire.

For me, the south actually represents earth better than fire; the south is a land of hunters and farmers, of nature and hard labor. Georgia and Alabama are both dusty and muddy, with red clay soil, often turned up by the farmer's plow. Florida is full of swamps and beaches. The Appalachian mountains are karst regions, full of caves, canyons, and rocky outcropping rich in both fossils and fossil fuels. Coal runs deep and wide in hard rock veins, and bits of it can be found among the pebbles of almost every Kentucky stream and rill.

(East is water, north is air; I guess I need to go to your "air" thread and post my associations there!)

Anyway, back to fire;

In the esoteric Hindu and Buddhist tradition, fire and lightning are associated with the Gods, specifically the old Vedic gods, and the various Goddesses like Tara and Kali. There are all powerful, turbulent, and sometimes violent entities, so I think a ritual knife is the implement that best represents fire, or perhaps a Vajra (a very stylized lightning-bolt shaped implement; it doesn't look much like western ideas of lightning!) The eastern tradition ties lighting to fire and air, but moreso to fire than to air. Indra was the Vedic God of storms and lightning, and his brother was Agni, the fire god; Vayu was the God of the wind, and he wasn't as important.

As for a sense association, that's not really part of the eastern tradition, but I do associate fire with smells! I don't hear fire foremost, though it does crackle nicely, nor do I primarily see it, though it glows brightly. It's the acrid smell of smoke that evokes the most primal, instinctual recognition of fire for me, that distinguishes it from other elements, like water which might sound beautiful, or earth which might be very impressive to look upon.

I would associate the Lion with fire, as well as the Rhinoceros. The fire God agni typically rides on the Rhino, and it does come from the hot savannahs of Africa! The Lion is the traditional mount of the war Goddess Durga, and it's mane is not so unlike a halo of flames. Serpents and salamanders, so commonly associated with fire in the west actually have a cold association in Indian culture, and so are more likely to be associated with water or earth, (or even air) than with fire. Probably because the Hindu underworld, Nagaloka, the home of the snakes, is supposed to be frigidly cold and perpetually dark, rather than hot or fiery.

For me, the musical instrument that I associate with fire are string instruments; the twang of a mandolin or guitar is not unlike the crackling of a nice fire, and an angry metal guitar riff is like a raging bonfire!

"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Altair

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2018, 07:34:31 am »
Serpents and salamanders, so commonly associated with fire in the west actually have a cold association in Indian culture, and so are more likely to be associated with water or earth, (or even air) than with fire. Probably because the Hindu underworld, Nagaloka, the home of the snakes, is supposed to be frigidly cold and perpetually dark, rather than hot or fiery.

This in particular got me thinking (which is the point of this thread, so great!)--reptiles may actually work well for me for fire. Unlike birds and mammals, they need the sun to keep their body temperature up, and they are so often seen basking in the sun. Even aquatic reptiles--turtles, crocs & allies--love to bask. And the further into warmer climes one goes (south, from northern temperate latitudes), the more abundant reptiles become. Add their association with the best-known fire creature of myth, the dragon, and reptiles seem an excellent choice for fire.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Aisling

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2018, 12:02:02 pm »
This in particular got me thinking (which is the point of this thread, so great!)--reptiles may actually work well for me for fire. Unlike birds and mammals, they need the sun to keep their body temperature up, and they are so often seen basking in the sun. Even aquatic reptiles--turtles, crocs & allies--love to bask. And the further into warmer climes one goes (south, from northern temperate latitudes), the more abundant reptiles become. Add their association with the best-known fire creature of myth, the dragon, and reptiles seem an excellent choice for fire.

Speaking of basking, I've always associated cats, both wild and domestic, with fire.  Also salamanders and scorpions. 

"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -
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Jenett

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 10:07:04 am »
What resonates with fire for you?

Finally managing to getting around to answering this.

I am also "Fire in the south" (which is an easy one for me, because that is where the warm is.)

One of my lines from an elemental chant I wrote for ritual use is "Powers of fire, candle, hearth, and sun" - the microcosm and macrocosm of the way heat and light radiate in our lives, both in a physical-world sense, and in a metaphorical sense.

I think a lot about the range of scale with fire, that there is the small and personal, but also the cosmic, more than I do the other elements. (It's there for them too! But I do a lot more direct work with the interconnections with fire: this candle is a hearth fire, this hearthfire is connected in a direct way to the sun.)

My tradition is heavily intertwined with the phoenix, so a lot of my fire work also has that element - changing, developing, dying and rebirth, renewal and transformation.

  • Will - the driving force that makes things go.
  • Mars energy (in the planetary sense, not specifically the deity) : active principle making things happen
  • The positive powers of inertia (Once you get things moving, they tend to stay in motion. So what do you choose to put in motion?)
  • Dance, of the particularly active/energetic form
  • For some applications, the heartbeat, especially in drumming.
  • Instruments: Brass, stacatto drums and percussion, driving beats that move things forward.
  • Smells: Spices, the warming herbs (cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, nutmeg, allspice, etc.) If I could tolerate peppers, I'd use them here, but I have a pitiful tolerance for hot spiced foods.
  • Colours: Flame colours: red, orange, yellow, gold. Maybe with a hint of the deep blue at the centre of the flame.
  • Animals (physical): Lizards, snakes (who can also fit other places), desert dwellers
  • Animals (mythical): The phoenix, dragons, salamanders
  • Activities: besides 'getting the thing done', cooking. Acts of transformation (so, y'know, also cooking.)
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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 06:29:02 pm »
I can't even remember what the traditional sense is for fire, because to me it's unmistakably smell. (Tradition puts that in air. No!) The acrid smell of smoke, the delicious smell of cooking (heat excites molecules, which is why everything is smellier in summer), the heady smell of incense...all of this pertains to fire.

I have no animal associations with fire, since for me mythical beasts don't enter into this picture.

I keep forgetting to respond to this.

For me, the sense I associate with fire is vision -- because fire is what lets us see in the darkness.

I also associate birds with fire; there's the phoenix and (Russian) firebird, as well as the Kemetic hawk/sun association.
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Altair

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 06:14:33 am »
I think a lot about the range of scale with fire, that there is the small and personal, but also the cosmic, more than I do the other elements. (It's there for them too! But I do a lot more direct work with the interconnections with fire: this candle is a hearth fire, this hearthfire is connected in a direct way to the sun.)

One can go really macro with fire, when one considers all the stars and pulsars and such blazing in the universe. One could take it all the way back to the Big Bang.

Fire is a unique element in that way, different than the other three: where the others have realms on this planet (land, sea, and sky), fire is transient; where the others have familiar states of matter (solid, liquid, gas), fire is transitional: the energy that when added or subtracted changes things between states of matter.

Quote
My tradition is heavily intertwined with the phoenix, so a lot of my fire work also has that element - changing, developing, dying and rebirth, renewal and transformation.

...which fits with fire's transitional nature.

We're pretty much in agreement on your list, except this one:

Quote
  • Dance, of the particularly active/energetic form

Fire can definitely infuse dance--particularly some forms (flamenco!), as you note--but for me, dance pertains primarily to water. Dance is movement--fluidity--that expresses emotion, which is water's domain.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Altair

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Re: Fire--What Elemental Connections Do You Make?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 06:17:42 am »
I keep forgetting to respond to this.

For me, the sense I associate with fire is vision -- because fire is what lets us see in the darkness.

I also associate birds with fire; there's the phoenix and (Russian) firebird, as well as the Kemetic hawk/sun association.

Fascinating--I would never make these connections, and yet I can see where from a different perspective, they make sense.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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