Drugs, Seeing Gods, and States of Consiousness

[Tabris]

I would like to know what anyone's thoughts are on, if the use of hallucinogenic drugs , whether they're natural or man-made, actually elevate one's mind into a more perceptual form of consciousness

I ask this because over my winter break from college I went to a party and took something that sent me on a crazy trip that I keep wondering if what I saw was real or just the drug. If you would like to know what I saw message me cuz a part of me doesn't want it to be typed on a forum post.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

[Fireof9]

I would like to know what anyone's thoughts are on, if the use of hallucinogenic drugs , whether they're natural or man-made, actually elevate one's mind into a more perceptual form of consciousness

I ask this because over my winter break from college I went to a party and took something that sent me on a crazy trip that I keep wondering if what I saw was real or just the drug. If you would like to know what I saw message me cuz a part of me doesn't want it to be typed on a forum post.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

 

In my opinion and experience they can be. A good part of that is your mindset though.
When I have done hallucinogenics (many moons ago as a young whipper-snapper ) I always set aside a part of the time to sit and meditate about spiritual things. Had some really mind opening experiences. I never had the experience of seeing deity but those times truly expanded my ability to think outside of the confines of the religion I was raised in.

[Hrútsvinr]

I would like to know what anyone's thoughts are on, if the use of hallucinogenic drugs , whether they're natural or man-made, actually elevate one's mind into a more perceptual form of consciousness

I ask this because over my winter break from college I went to a party and took something that sent me on a crazy trip that I keep wondering if what I saw was real or just the drug. If you would like to know what I saw message me cuz a part of me doesn't want it to be typed on a forum post.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

Well...This is hard. I've been thinking about this lately, and especially about what 'real' is. Because honestly, everything is in our heads. Everything is just how we perceive it, however our brain chemistry might affect that (I'm not a scientist...:whis:). So...does that mean that everything is real? Or that nothing is real? And does it matter? I have no idea.

I personally avoid everything mind-altering that I can - drugs and alcohol are the obvious option - because my path requires it (I don't know why - my God just seems to stop working with me when I'm loopy). But, everything is mind-altering, honestly. Food, air, exercise - it all affects our brain chemistry, which can affect our mood, which can affect how we perceive things. And so on.

So, maybe the validity of your perceptions, for example visions, isn't affected by what is 'real' or not, depending on how you define reality. In any case I think that hallucinogenic drugs and the like can change your perspective in a way that might give a fresh view on spirituality.
I hope that all made sense.

Disclaimer: The only experience I've ever had with drugs was being drunk. So consider that when you read this It's only my uninformed opinion.

[Gilbride]

Because honestly, everything is in our heads. Everything is just how we perceive it, however our brain chemistry might affect that (I'm not a scientist...:whis:). So...does that mean that everything is real? Or that nothing is real? And does it matter? I have no idea.

No one does. It's very difficult to design a philosophically rigorous (as opposed to just practically useful) definition of what is and isn't "really real." It's much more useful to think in terms of what is useful.

In my opinion, "real" just means "whatever is experienced." But deciding what those experiences mean is a much more useful and difficult question.

[Annie Roonie]

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions?

 

I think they can create very realistic delusions and also be valuable tools for spiritual experience and more.

The problem I have with some usage is that it can open doors of perception (Merci Mr. Huxley) to rooms for which the user is unprepared to navigate and then all sorts of nonsense gets born. When I was young it was fear mongering. "Take seven hits of acid and you're legally insane!" That was a big one during high school. And stuff like that just presents the kind of stupid ass challenge some high school would be heroes jump at. And for more educated or experienced users these days, there is a bit of a pissing contest I see going on sometimes and that's not helpful IMO.

I think helpers are very valuable, but are best used in conjunction with some type of training or human assistance. To understand and get the most of an experience or just  to avoid having a dangerous or crap one, researching what one is using and being  honest about the purposes of the use, IMO, is very important.

I am not one who thinks that spirituality need be obtained prior to using helpers. Spirituality, IMO, is always present in everyone, and the helpers may bring it to conscious awareness more for some who have difficulty with it or for those who seek out more varied perceptions.  But regardless of how a person is with spirituality, getting some basics down with chemistry is going to make for a more useful and possibly safer experience.

[Zaphaux]

I would like to know what anyone's thoughts are on, if the use of hallucinogenic drugs , whether they're natural or man-made, actually elevate one's mind into a more perceptual form of consciousness

I ask this because over my winter break from college I went to a party and took something that sent me on a crazy trip that I keep wondering if what I saw was real or just the drug. If you would like to know what I saw message me cuz a part of me doesn't want it to be typed on a forum post.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

I had made a thread some time ago about this subject, but more inclined to marijuana.

 I do feel it's easier for me to perceive the energies around me, the mechanism of the universe, my own energy, when I'm high. I did also had some spiritual occurences on acid, but is not so uncommon to happen when you drop some. However, lately when I was sobber I found out one of them was true. So what I can say from personal experiences is that you gotta analyse the deities visions (or whatever you had during trips), from a severe point of view. And meditating sobber to see whether it was true or not will not kill you. What I mean here is that if you talked with a god/goddess, why not ask him/her if it really happened?

 So final point is: Yes, they definitely can help to have real spiritual experiences, for they loose your mind, open it to a level where you can perceive the other world much easily. In the sobber life you are so attached to the material, that your mind struggles to open when you're a begginer. Of course it will get easier and easier with time, but most drugs can help it.

[millergrls]

I would like to know what anyone's thoughts are on, if the use of hallucinogenic drugs , whether they're natural or man-made, actually elevate one's mind into a more perceptual form of consciousness

I ask this because over my winter break from college I went to a party and took something that sent me on a crazy trip that I keep wondering if what I saw was real or just the drug. If you would like to know what I saw message me cuz a part of me doesn't want it to be typed on a forum post.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

I think they can be valuable to an exten to open your third eye but you have to be careful.  Lsd will open open your third eye by sending the dtm through faster but it can also end up being too much and then it stays open and awake all of the time which isn't good.  This would put you into a place equivacal to a schizophrenic who's pineal gland is always opening and they hallucenate frequently.  So just be aware of what you are taking and be safe....

[Fireof9]

"Take seven hits of acid and you're legally insane!"

 
Oh damn! Well everyone can ignore everything I say cause I'm insane......

[Annie Roonie]

 Lsd will open open your third eye by sending the dtm through faster but it can also end up being too much and then it stays open and awake all of the time which isn't good.  This would put you into a place equivacal to a schizophrenic who's pineal gland is always opening and they hallucenate frequently.  So just be aware of what you are taking and be safe....

I am not sure what you are referring to with dtm, but dmt and lsd are not the same thing. And both process through the body and leave it (I am aware of the half life legends of lsd and they are IMO more sensational than reflective of reality), so there is probably something else going on if some perception switch remains on all the time.

And I am not sure about the reference to the pineal gland with schizophrenia here either. That seems an odd shortcut to explain a very complicated issue and from what I've read that is available online, it's not accurate either. Some substances can create conditions that mimic schizophrenic symptoms, and there may be a correlation between NMDA receptor antagonists and brain damage, but I'd have to find time to do a deeper research to see if there's been conclusive evidence published. But the pineal gland isn't mentioned in my readings so far of the sciences (I could have missed something). Under the pineal gland wiki, the dmt connection is listed as conjecture still. (I know, I know wiki - but reading those to start about all of these things can help at least with where things are and what they do.)

I will echo that being safe is the best thing to do, and the safest thing is not to use these drugs. Being aware of what one is taking and how it works might make things safer but that would require a few kinds of research (chemical, biological, neurological, spiritual, religious) which does not seem the most driving factor for many users. It often seems like people want a chemical shortcut to altered perceptions and that's it. And that being so, it might be healthier and much safer to just reserve some time in an isolation tank. They were big once, and some places still rent out time in them.

[Annie Roonie]

Oh damn! Well everyone can ignore everything I say cause I'm insane......

 

In the membrane. Of course. It's always the membranes.

Have you seen that old classic Altered States? So much weird fun. I used to think it may have inspired many people to use psychoactive drugs, but when I talk to folks irl, nobody seems to have seen it.

[millergrls]

I am not sure what you are referring to with dtm, but dmt and lsd are not the same thing. And both process through the body and leave it (I am aware of the half life legends of lsd and they are IMO more sensational than reflective of reality), so there is probably something else going on if some perception switch remains on all the time.

And I am not sure about the reference to the pineal gland with schizophrenia here either. That seems an odd shortcut to explain a very complicated issue and from what I've read that is available online, it's not accurate either. Some substances can create conditions that mimic schizophrenic symptoms, and there may be a correlation between NMDA receptor antagonists and brain damage, but I'd have to find time to do a deeper research to see if there's been conclusive evidence published. But the pineal gland isn't mentioned in my readings so far of the sciences (I could have missed something). Under the pineal gland wiki, the dmt connection is listed as conjecture still. (I know, I know wiki - but reading those to start about all of these things can help at least with where things are and what they do.)

I will echo that being safe is the best thing to do, and the safest thing is not to use these drugs. Being aware of what one is taking and how it works might make things safer but that would require a few kinds of research (chemical, biological, neurological, spiritual, religious) which does not seem the most driving factor for many users. It often seems like people want a chemical shortcut to altered perceptions and that's it. And that being so, it might be healthier and much safer to just reserve some time in an isolation tank. They were big once, and some places still rent out time in them.

 




I have also researched this from other sources and research and have found that they all correlate.  This is the scientifically based research not just the spiritual view.

[Annie Roonie]

I have also researched this from other sources and research and have found that they all correlate.  This is the scientifically based research not just the spiritual view.

 

That guy actually did appear in Ancient Aliens. No lie.

It might be worth your while to research this guy and his claims. He falls into the pseudo science category. I would link to his meme generator topic but it is kind of cruel so I will leave that up to your discretion.

Your other unnamed resources might be of merit though. I do not have the time to research a list, but if you add the word "debunked" after the name of the authors of the different sources you have in a Google search, you may get a more well rounded picture of what your dealing with in terms of actual science. Or you could take the topic you have in mind and do a Google Scholar search on it.


To anyone reading who is familiar with rule one, it should apply if you attempt to look into this dude. No keyboards should die today.

[Abduzza]

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts? Can hallucinogenic drugs be a valuable tools when perceiving spiritual occurrences or do they merely create very realistic delusions? Also I hope I put this in the right category and apologize if it isn't

I think that Hallucinogens are better used as ego destroying substances then as some method of spiritual travel. At least in my experience the Hallucinogens weren't revealing some new dimension to me but was only holding a mirror up and saying "fix this and this and this." Of course that's my experience and others will vary.

[Fireof9]

In the membrane. Of course. It's always the membranes.

Have you seen that old classic Altered States? So much weird fun. I used to think it may have inspired many people to use psychoactive drugs, but when I talk to folks irl, nobody seems to have seen it.

Insane in the membrane! Now I have to go listen to Anthrax LOLOL

I have never seen it, I have heard of it and have wanted to.

[Annie Roonie]

I think that Hallucinogens are better used as ego destroying substances then as some method of spiritual travel. At least in my experience the Hallucinogens weren't revealing some new dimension to me but was only holding a mirror up and saying "fix this and this and this." Of course that's my experience and others will vary.

This is very similar to my experience as well, but I do think the experience is spiritual. Destruction of ego for sure, and finding areas of my own to fix or examine more closely are definitely more the norm (if there is such a thing) experience for me with hallucinogens.

I do think they can help break down walls in order to create an opportunity for spiritual travel and/or deity interaction, but for me I can liken the frequency of that experience to the frequency when such things happen in dream. They stick out and are rare for me. (It seems like spiritual travel and deity interaction actually occur more when unaided for me.)

I really like that you brought up the destruction of ego. It is something I have not been able to articulate well. It seems like almost at every level of the process from researching, to making or finding the substance to using it and every step in between, the risks and the unknowns, contribute to ego destruction and make for a clearer field of consciousness at least for me.