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Author Topic: Curiosity vs. Call  (Read 3590 times)

Breeze

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 11:21:25 am »
Quote from: windshadow;128632
What stephyjh said!!

And it seems to me that some newbies to Paganism have an overwhelming desire to see signs and omens everywhere they look in an attempt to validate their developing beliefs.

I always look for a logical answer for everything, first. So maybe I'm just not spiritual enough to get the whole omen, whoo-hoo sign thingy. Then again, my deity speaks to me via meditation and doesn't need to send animals or undecipherable signs to get my attention.

 
This, this, a thousand times THIS.  I compare coming on to a new path and new way of thinking to how children interact with the environment around them.  You got a toy taken away?  Mommy and Daddy must hate you and they're big meanie doo doo heads.    Your aunt bought you an ice cream cone?  She's your favorite adult ever!

When you're looking at the world in new perspectives, everything means something, and those meanings are usually far more enormous to the viewer than they truly are (timeout = hate, ice cream = adoration).

I did the same thing early on, and unfortunately for me it took me a long time to calm the hell down with all of that.  "Look! A butterfly!  Butterflies must be my totem animal," (I am intentionally using this word incorrectly here to illustrate a point).  "I really like peacocks, they're so pretty ... Hera has to be my patron goddess!"

There's a certain zealousness that overtakes a lot of our sense and sensibilities when we finally find something we've been looking for.  It's even more so when that something is a spiritual path or carries with it certain perspectives designed to alter one's way of thinking.  I think it's also part of the fluffy phase (not to say every beginner/seeker is full of fluff.  I certainly was Lord Fluffy McFlupherson when I started out).  In time, and with growth and maturity, the 'EVERYTHING MEANS SOMETHING!' usually is tempered out with experience.

beachglass

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 12:09:22 pm »
Quote from: Breeze;128638
There's a certain zealousness that overtakes a lot of our sense and sensibilities when we finally find something we've been looking for.  It's even more so when that something is a spiritual path or carries with it certain perspectives designed to alter one's way of thinking.  I think it's also part of the fluffy phase (not to say every beginner/seeker is full of fluff.  I certainly was Lord Fluffy McFlupherson when I started out).  In time, and with growth and maturity, the 'EVERYTHING MEANS SOMETHING!' usually is tempered out with experience.

 
I think this can be compounded for those whose previous experience is that God is Somewhere Up There (and when he comes down to Earth it's a Big Deal), who are coming to the concept of divinity on Earth, everywhere, in everything, etc. I think it takes a little getting used to the idea before you let go of the reflex that the gods are here so it must be a big deal.
"The further we go, and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."  ~ Robert Smith

Aiwelin

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 01:31:05 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;128565
Some of it may have to do with a new, fresh way of noticing.  I used to be with someone who grew up in the suburbs and never really thought to differentiate different kinds of, say, birds, or trees.  They were just "birds." Or "trees."  And if you're suddenly entering a way of thinking where, wow!  there are different kinds of birds! and they all mean different things! and you're kind of fresh at seeing the world in that kind of detail, you're going to experience a lot of things sticking out in a way that's new and kind of full of wonder and also prone to misinterpretation.

 
I think this is a huge part of it.  I grew up in a rural-ish environment, and I'm generally a pretty observant person; but moving into a Pagan path where connecting with and noting the local life-forms is a huge part of practice, I found that there was SO MUCH I hadn't ever noticed before.  Learning the names of trees, their differences and growth patterns, the timing of animal appearances, exactly what kinds of birds are eating what out of your birdfeeder in the middle of winter - these are things I never knew, and was astounded to find.  

I just recently saw a mink in a creek that's near my suburban house.  It's hard not to see it as a gift from the nature spirits, acknowledging my gifts and attention.  But it's just as likely to be a random animal that was wandering through the park that day, who has since moved on, and that's why no one has ever seen it.

Quote from: quarks;128582
This.  As someone still discovering her path, I yearn for signs.  I want that pat on the back that says I'm going in the right direction.  I know, however, that it is unlikely that I will ever get one.  For me, making the conscious choice to follow this path because I love the Deities is more important than making myself believe that I am special enough to receive signs.  Do I want signs?  Yes, but I'm not holding my breathe.  My wanting to feel special doesn't outway mundane explanations.


I remember being a newbie Wiccan years ago - every time the wind blew I was convinced it was the Goddess reaching Her hands out to hold me :P.  I think a lot of people who've come to a Pagan path have been there; so kudos to you for recognizing and overcoming that innate tendency to invest meaning in All The Things!
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Aniera

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 12:34:33 pm »
Quote from: Tana;128574
But I would argue the extraordinary a bit. I'd rather say a sign has to be meaningful in this moment in space and time. Which can even happen to something, that would be just mundane only an hour later.

It's complicated. (Why does that sound like a FB relationship status now? Check box 'Your relationship with the Supernatural World' - Oh, it's complicated.) :D:

 
Agree.

Signs for me... hmm.

I have a heard time wrapping my head around a "Call" unless something is just so in my face extrodinary. For example: I see rabbits in my yard all the time, normally when I see them (And there is at least 5) is to find my two year old who calls them "hop-hops" and watch him hop too. He gets excited to see them. Now if one day I walk out my door and the rabbits have multiplied and are in lines in my front yard and staring at me like they want to eat me. I might think that something is seriously wrong there and take it as a sign or an impending apocalypse
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Tana

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2013, 01:31:35 pm »
Quote from: Aniera;128812
I might think that something is seriously wrong there and take it as a sign or an impending apocalypse


*tee-hee* This makes me think of this:
[video=youtube;7tiGRIl7_lM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tiGRIl7_lM[/video]
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Aniera

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2013, 01:43:41 pm »
Quote from: Tana;128817
*tee-hee* This makes me think of this:
[video=youtube;7tiGRIl7_lM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tiGRIl7_lM[/video]

 
haha! Exactly!

:p
What A Shame To Have Wings & Never Fly

Becoming a mother is my greatest achievement.


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SatAset

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2013, 07:19:27 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;128553

If I see a bunch of rabbits hopping around my yard (which I do on a routine basis), my first thought tends to be "Oh, rabbits!" rather than to wonder if the rabbits represent something I should be doing or thinking.  


Perhaps it is a call from Wenut.  ::grins and runs away::
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

SatAset

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2013, 07:43:43 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;128553

So, what inclines some people toward seeing the mystical or spiritual in everything, and others to not?  Should we lean one way or the other, or is there a middle ground?  What do you tend to do?


I think some part of it is uncertainty.  If you are raised with the idea that God's will can be discerned from a book, for example, it is very unsettling to suddenly find yourself looking to Holy Powers whose religious tradition does not have a holy text.  You don't know where They are or how to discern what They want.  

Also, if deities can manifest or communicate through nature, then that's where people are going to look so then they start to see all animals and natural forces as omens.  

I think the middle ground is learning discernment and realizing that sometimes a gaggle of geese is just a gaggle of geese.  Or sometimes it's Geb saying hi.  :-)
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

Finn

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2013, 09:47:37 pm »
Quote from: Aniera;128812
Now if one day I walk out my door and the rabbits have multiplied and are in lines in my front yard and staring at me like they want to eat me. I might think that something is seriously wrong there and take it as a sign or an impending apocalypse

 
This is perfectly normal behavior for buns. :p  They, like cats, are pretty much always plotting your demise and/or judging you so hard.

Evidence.
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yennork

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2013, 01:06:33 pm »
Quote from: Finn;128846
This is perfectly normal behavior for buns. :p  They, like cats, are pretty much always plotting your demise and/or judging you so hard.

Evidence.

 
True. rabbits just look cute and innocent to fool you. Really, they are some vicious bastards! They have strong hindlegs with sharp claws and they know how to use them...
Never mind what should be or what might be or what ought to be. It\'s what things are that\'s important.

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Jabberwocky

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2013, 01:23:34 pm »
Quote from: windshadow;128632


And it seems to me that some newbies to Paganism have an overwhelming desire to see signs and omens everywhere they look in an attempt to validate their developing beliefs.


Oh, but that are signs and omens everywhere.  You just need to look hard enough.

Similarly, when I was a child, there was often buried treasure in my garden.  The fact I'd buried it myself doesn't make that statement any less true, no?
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

LittleLapSnake

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2013, 02:50:02 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;128553


So, what inclines some people toward seeing the mystical or spiritual in everything, and others to not?  Should we lean one way or the other, or is there a middle ground?  What do you tend to do?

I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess?
My parents have always had a keen interest in animals, as did (and do) I, so if I see one, even if it is rare, I'm just excited to see them. For example, I saw a great spotted woodpecker near my house a couple weeks ago. While not extremely rare, you basically never see them in urban areas, which is where I found this one. I was just happy to see the creature, and I don't immediately assign them all sorts of meaning.

However, I've been having trouble with my internet connection lately. A thought popped into my head that it must be the deity I'm currently interested in/working with screwing with my wifi, because we've been working on my discipline (studying…), and internet is a massive procrastination tool for me. I immediately dismissed that thought as ludicrous (I mean, come on, I've been having internet issues since before I started working with him).

Only, since I had that thought, I think of the deity in question and do start on my studying, instead of starting up a movie or doing some other thing I could do on my laptop offline. So, while it might not be a sign, for me it has been useful to give it a meaning to help me with my personal development.

Shefyt

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2013, 12:28:43 pm »
Quote from: SatAset;128833
I think some part of it is uncertainty.  If you are raised with the idea that God's will can be discerned from a book, for example, it is very unsettling to suddenly find yourself looking to Holy Powers whose religious tradition does not have a holy text.  You don't know where They are or how to discern what They want.


Tangentially related to this, I find that anxiety in general feeds into the "Everything must be a sign!!!" thing. If I'm stressed out about something, that's when every little happening seems to be weighted with enormous significance.

-Shefyt
I have not taken time away from the day;
I have done no damage to a beautiful hour.
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Hearth Keeper

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2013, 12:15:49 pm »
I have a pretty good connection to Animal Spirits and Messengers.  I work with my Spirit Animals more so than the Human Guides.  I can feel the difference between a Messenger and just a normal occurrence.  If I don't feel anything, there's nothing to jump to mystical conclusions about.  

As a photographer and nature lover, I still observe the animal, and maybe learn something, even if it's just about their behavior or environmental reaction.  

But I get what you're talking about; I also get annoyed by those who see the mystical in everything.  But at the same time, I'm not in their shoes and don't know what they may have felt when they saw said creature(s).  Sometimes a sighting is just awe inspiring and will leave you with a special feeling, regardless of whether it's a sign or not.  Who am I to tell them that they're silly and wrong?  I may have my own judgments that I choose to keep to myself, but who doesn't?  There's a lot of variables that can only be experienced by the person in question.  It's for that person to judge.  If they learn something from the encounter, then good for them, if not, it makes for a good/interesting memory.
~)O(~

veggiewolf

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Re: Curiosity vs. Call
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 12:33:17 pm »
Quote from: Dyslexic Witch;131897
I have a pretty good connection to Animal Spirits and Messengers.  I work with my Spirit Animals more so than the Human Guides.  I can feel the difference between a Messenger and just a normal occurrence.  If I don't feel anything, there's nothing to jump to mystical conclusions about.  

As a photographer and nature lover, I still observe the animal, and maybe learn something, even if it's just about their behavior or environmental reaction.  

But I get what you're talking about; I also get annoyed by those who see the mystical in everything.  But at the same time, I'm not in their shoes and don't know what they may have felt when they saw said creature(s).  Sometimes a sighting is just awe inspiring and will leave you with a special feeling, regardless of whether it's a sign or not.  Who am I to tell them that they're silly and wrong?  I may have my own judgments that I choose to keep to myself, but who doesn't?  There's a lot of variables that can only be experienced by the person in question.  It's for that person to judge.  If they learn something from the encounter, then good for them, if not, it makes for a good/interesting memory.

 
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