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Author Topic: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors  (Read 2351 times)

drekfletch

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Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« on: October 30, 2011, 12:18:00 am »
This is something I'm wrestling with, prompted by the holiday.

My religious beliefs are heavily influenced by Hellenism, which includes Ancestor veneration.  Ancestor veneration feels like something I should make room for, but my current beliefs aren't quite gelling.  It feels too artificial, not organic enough.

I'm of the belief that after death, the soul dissolves back into the greater divinity of existance.  However, there Are daemons/spirits that may... imprint... the character of the deceased into themselves.  I do not think this happens with all or even most souls.  It is a function of both the mental/spiritual headspace of the person before they die, and of the suvivors'.  A 'job description' is created in the ether that the daemon fills.

I feel like I'm missing a step somewhere (probably in the imprint trigger), but I can't put my finger on what that step is.  There's also awkwardness that comes into play regarding a person who is starting ancestor veneration, and maybe calling for an ancestor that wasn't imprinted, and now the soul is gone.

Has anyone else been here before?  Advice, comments, lightbulbs?
There is no inherent meaning to life.  Stop looking and give your life meaning.
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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 08:31:00 am »
Quote from: drekfletch;28220
I'm of the belief that after death, the soul dissolves back into the greater divinity of existance.  However, there Are daemons/spirits that may... imprint... the character of the deceased into themselves.  I do not think this happens with all or even most souls.

Your beliefs really don't seem compatible with ancestor worship, which is probably why you are having trouble with it. It's just not something that makes much sense given what you believe.
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drekfletch

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 01:37:52 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;28249
Your beliefs really don't seem compatible with ancestor worship, which is probably why you are having trouble with it. It's just not something that makes much sense given what you believe.

 
It's complicated.  I believe the soul of the deceased is no more.  But I do believe in the existance of daemons who fill the role of ghosts and Ancestors. It is the reconciliation between the two that isn't coming together for me.
There is no inherent meaning to life.  Stop looking and give your life meaning.
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Chapter 91 of The Order War by L.E.Modesitt jr.  If I could quote the entire thing I would.

drekfletch

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 01:46:06 pm »
Quote from: drekfletch;28273
It is the reconciliation between the two

 
In the mechanical sense of the term.  Especially for one who is starting ancestor veneration from scratch.
There is no inherent meaning to life.  Stop looking and give your life meaning.
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Chapter 91 of The Order War by L.E.Modesitt jr.  If I could quote the entire thing I would.

Asch

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 02:59:59 pm »
Quote from: drekfletch;28275
In the mechanical sense of the term.  Especially for one who is starting ancestor veneration from scratch.

 
Well, you don't necessarily have to literally worship them if you don't think they're existant anymore in any form. You could however offer gratitude etc for their deeds and your own existence - as far as your literal ancestors, regarding the daemons perhaps there's another form or worship/ritual? Offering thanks and such separate from the ancestors?

SatSekhem

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 08:23:12 am »
Quote from: drekfletch;28220
Has anyone else been here before?  Advice, comments, lightbulbs?

I went to a funeral and that's when I realized that I needed to get my shit together and cement my spiritual practice in regards to the afterlife.

I've always believed in reincarnation, but that doesn't exactly mesh with having an ancient Egyptian post-life belief ideal. So, I meandered my way through three blog entries before it cemented. The entries can be found here, here, and here, if you're interested. In effect, I believe the ways of life after death that the ancient Egyptians wrote down so long ago, but I added a few specific twists that worked with my reincarnation belief.

As for my advice, I would say that Asch offered some awesome advice.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 08:24:08 am by SatSekhem »
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SatAset

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 04:41:28 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;28961

I've always believed in reincarnation, but that doesn't exactly mesh with having an ancient Egyptian post-life belief ideal. So, I meandered my way through three blog entries before it cemented. The entries can be found here, here, and here, if you're interested. In effect, I believe the ways of life after death that the ancient Egyptians wrote down so long ago, but I added a few specific twists that worked with my reincarnation belief.

As for my advice, I would say that Asch offered some awesome advice.


There are afterlife texts that could be interpreted as the ancient Egyptians having a belief in reincarnation.  So, you're not far off the mark there.
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

SatSekhem

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 08:11:58 pm »
Quote from: SatAset;29051
There are afterlife texts that could be interpreted as the ancient Egyptians having a belief in reincarnation.  So, you're not far off the mark there.

 
You know, I thought I had noticed a mention here and there about it, but thought I was insane. :whis:
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drekfletch

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 02:42:42 pm »
Quote from: Asch;28279
Well, you don't necessarily have to literally worship them if you don't think they're existant anymore in any form. ...snip... regarding the daemons perhaps there's another form or worship/ritual? Offering thanks and such separate from the ancestors?

 
It was less that I worship them, and more that I needed to figure out where they fit in my system.  I think "they" do exist in some form.  It's just not the form standardly thought of.

Quote from: SatSekhem;28961
I've always believed in reincarnation, but that doesn't exactly mesh with having an ancient Egyptian post-life belief ideal. So, I meandered my way through three blog entries before it cemented. The entries can be found here, here, and here, if you're interested.

 
Thank you.  This was particularly helpful in pinpointing where my thought-snarls are.
 
I want to thank everyone and apologize for forgetting.  I had intended to come back when I had more time.

I think I've come to a loose conclusion.  When the a person dies, their soul... testifies.  The impressions it gathered during life are read into the collective memory.  This memory is what the Ancestor/Ghost Daemons look to to get their personalities/(job descriptions).
There is no inherent meaning to life.  Stop looking and give your life meaning.
------------------------------------------
Chapter 91 of The Order War by L.E.Modesitt jr.  If I could quote the entire thing I would.

SkySamuelle

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Re: Dissolution of Soul and Ancestors
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2011, 04:06:27 am »
Quote from: drekfletch;28220
This is something I'm wrestling with, prompted by the holiday.

My religious beliefs are heavily influenced by Hellenism, which includes Ancestor veneration.  Ancestor veneration feels like something I should make room for, but my current beliefs aren't quite gelling.  It feels too artificial, not organic enough.

I'm of the belief that after death, the soul dissolves back into the greater divinity of existance.  However, there Are daemons/spirits that may... imprint... the character of the deceased into themselves.  I do not think this happens with all or even most souls.  It is a function of both the mental/spiritual headspace of the person before they die, and of the suvivors'.  A 'job description' is created in the ether that the daemon fills.

I feel like I'm missing a step somewhere (probably in the imprint trigger), but I can't put my finger on what that step is.  There's also awkwardness that comes into play regarding a person who is starting ancestor veneration, and maybe calling for an ancestor that wasn't imprinted, and now the soul is gone.

Has anyone else been here before?  Advice, comments, lightbulbs?

 
I do believe in reincarnation - the goddess i serve showed me bits of  a pastlife last year, to let me understand why i needed to come full circle with some situations in this lifetime.

I can't explain the difference between my past self and my current self if not with one image- it felt like the substance of my soul was the same but my identity/personality changed.

I even believe that some echoes of the people we have been remain imprinted in a form of Collective Subconscious - this belief would explain we are able to contact the deceased of even thousand years ago even if they probably reincarnated by now.

I think I first read something about that in a Dion Fortune book and it stuck with me... it can apply to your issue with ancestor veneration. If you imagine you are honoring an imprint of them in a collective subconscious/universal erengetic matrix.
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