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Author Topic: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?  (Read 8559 times)

Elizabeth

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 09:29:06 am »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998

According to wiki, you'd be called a polydeist just in case you would like to use one word, :D

I'm not a combination. I'm a monotheist without religion of any kind. I believe there is a creator God but I don't follow any one book or set of "rules" (not the write word, but I couldn't think of the one I wanted to use). I do enjoy reading the different religious books, though.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 12:06:35 am by SunflowerP »
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“I would like to see anyone, prophet, king or God, convince a thousand cats to do the same thing at the same time.” - Neil Gaiman

treekisser

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 11:12:49 am »
Quote from: Elizabeth;4532

I'm not a combination. I'm a monotheist without religion of any kind. I believe there is a creator God but I don't follow any one book or set of "rules" (not the write word, but I couldn't think of the one I wanted to use). I do enjoy reading the different religious books, though.

 
Could I ask why specifically one creator God?

Elizabeth

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 02:31:34 pm »
Quote from: treekisser;4807
Could I ask why specifically one creator God?

For the same reason others believe in one creator God or many gods or whatever else they believe. It felt right to me and that's all. I do not claim everyone else is wrong, I'm just comfortable with believing in one God.

ETA: I also realize how stupid I look for using "write" instead of "right" in my previous post.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 02:34:09 pm by Elizabeth »
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“I would like to see anyone, prophet, king or God, convince a thousand cats to do the same thing at the same time.” - Neil Gaiman

Penelope

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 02:56:36 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?

 
I believe I fall under the category of 'poly-pantheistic animist'. I believe in an unknowable, transcendant, impersonal 'force' of divinity that is present within all existance (similar to the idea of 'Brahman'). But I, also, believe in numerous, individual deities that, along with us and everything else in the universe, are a part of that divinity. The Gods, in particular, I see as emanations of a greater whole, whist still possessing an individual identity.

I think that makes sense...

treekisser

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 05:48:28 pm »
Quote from: Elizabeth;4838
For the same reason others believe in one creator God or many gods or whatever else they believe. It felt right to me and that's all. I do not claim everyone else is wrong, I'm just comfortable with believing in one God.


Oh OK - I was just curious because I read an intro to the philosophy of religion recently, which included a bit about why (mono)theists can reasonably believe there to be one rather than several creator gods, so was wondering if your belief was based on that kind of argument as opposed to intuition, etc.

Celtag Sinkerr

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 01:07:21 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

 
I am definitely a Hard Polytheist, I believe all the Gods to be individuals in their own right, and connect with whom they choose.

Ursula

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2011, 04:49:27 am »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998

Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

 
I call myself a 'soft monotheist', LOL.  (Hope I'm not offensive to anyone - I'm not any expert on terminology!)  I believe in an omniscient (sp?) spirit entity that is basically the creative intelligence behind all universes and which is present everywhere - pretty much like the traditional Christian concept of God.  IMO this spirit being is genderless (or both/all genders, whichever way you look at it).  I have always struggled to get my head around how a being can be truly 'God(dess)' if there are many god/desses, as ~for me personally~ the concept of 'god/dess' equates to being all-knowing and all-powerful, which is not fully possible if there are many 'competing' god/desses.  (I understand this is not the case for everyone, just saying my own personal feelings/opinions.)  After thinking this through I came to the conclusion that perhaps when some people mean when they talk about a god or goddess is fundamentally different from what I mean when I use the same words.  My concept of god/dess is more like the Bon Dieu of Voudon, the big cheese, the head honcho.  However, I certainly do believe in many other powerful spiritual beings that interact with humans.

Raised Catholic, there does not seem to me to be within that religion an adequate way of 'dealing with' (for want of a better word) those spiritual beings other than 'the big cheese' - references to saints are more like honouring the ancestors, and the only other spiritual entities in general practice are angels.  While I have huge respect for the angels, somehow it feels to me like these other spiritual beings can't accurately be described as 'angels' but are something else, so I become to understand them as 'gods' and 'goddesses'.  But because those terms are very charged for me, I still think of them as 'spiritual beings' for want of a term that sits perfectly with me.

Please understand I am not trying to disrespect anyone else's beliefs or maintain that their god/desses are not really god/desses at all; that is not what I am trying to say but just to explain my personal 'journey of faith'.  :)  After all these are just human words.

Although brought up Roman Catholic I was always taught of the existence of 'place spirits' and 'nature spirits' and have always felt a strong connection with them; sometimes in plants or trees, sometimes in specific places.  I believe that sometimes they are elementals, sometimes the spirits of individual plants and sometimes, perhaps, what you might call 'minor god/desses' of very specific localities.  I suppose my parents' brand of Christianity was quite open-minded; other spiritual beings as well as 'the big cheese' were definitely acknowledged.  So although I have some reservations still about the terminology of 'other god/desses', I feel it is essential for me to have relationships with other spiritual beings.  I guess you could say I 'worship' the Bon Dieu-type being in the sense of that being the most important in the 'hierarchy' for me; my patron, perhaps.  But I have relationships with others, too.

toastnstuff

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2011, 12:35:51 pm »
Quote
how can a blood cell understand the self-awareness of the human being of which it is a part?

Well put lol... I love a good analogy. :D:
I must say that I reeeeeally enjoy reading this. More people need to chime in here! As I am rather undecided about this myself, I appreciate the ability to evaluate each of these against my own internal beliefs. Thx guys!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 12:37:31 pm by toastnstuff »

Valentine

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2011, 01:18:44 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.


This sounds, to me, awfully like Neoplatonism as a structure.  Is that a conscious influence?  I know it was an important set of ideas for me, when I was building a worldview.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
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alexmegami

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2011, 07:22:07 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?

 
I would say that I vacillate on the pantheism/panentheism/other question. I guess I'd say that I agree that everything is interconnected, whether there's something also beyond that I have no idea, and whether it's spiritual or not is a question I'm not really bothered with asking/answering.

As I said elsewhere in the beginner forums recently, I consider myself a "henotheist less one god", only semi-jokingly. I believe that all gods do exist. I don't have one (or more) that I worship currently, because attempts thus far have been unimpressive to unpleasant, so either I'm doing it wrong or I'm chasing the wrong god(s).

The nature of the gods (actual divine entities, beings that have evolved, archetypes we use and stories we tell to teach moral/ethical/community values) doesn't matter too much to me, either.

letty

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2011, 07:42:33 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;1306
I'm actually an atheist/soft polytheist/pantheist.

I believe all God/dess are man made personifications of natural forces. I believe natural forces are Divine in nature. I believe in no sentient God/dess, separate entity. Sort of a mixed bag of tricks, here.

 
This is basically exactly what I believe. It's nice to have somebody summarize it so well!

ForeverLearning

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2011, 06:31:46 pm »
Quote from: Sage;1007
A bit of pantheism with hard polytheism. I believe in a universal energy of sorts that ties everything together - a bit like the Dao, actually - but it's nonsentient and not a person in any sense. I believe in many different gods, but none of them are omnipotent, omniscient, etc. They've got a role to play in the universe, the same as humans and rock and dark matter. It's all part of the Great Circle of Life! :D

 
I, for one, agree. It's a lot more comforting to view the gods as having flaws and roles like us (of course, they're a hell of a lot more powerful). But they're relatable at the same time. Heh, Dao--grew up with philosophies very simular to it (since I was raised by Yogis) so I also have to agree with that, the undefinable force tying everything together.
My occupation? I don\'t really have one--but in my spare time I look through my telescope searching for that curious man in the flying blue box.

Tamina

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 11:14:45 am »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

I'm a polytheist. I believe in the entire Celtic Pantheon and call on a number of different Gods, informally and forally, to help me with things. Before I do a reading and while/before/during wiritng, I touch base with Cerwidden, I appeal to Epona as a Hearth Goddess. I'm drawn to all of them.

I don't believe in an overseeing force that has a conciousness, but I do believe that there is magic in all of us, in everything. And we draw on that magical energy to do everything from ritual to breathing. I don't know what I'd qualify as though, that's just what I believe.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 11:17:47 am by Tamina »

Nehet

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 02:31:37 pm »
Quote from: EJay;3243
Like you, I'm a panentheist and polytheist.  The difference for me is that the panentheist part (which I refer to as God, in spite of the term's connotations) is not personified or self-aware as we understand the term.  However, I believe God is fully self-aware in a way which I can't possibly fathom.  To use the human body analogy, how can a blood cell understand the self-awareness of the human being of which it is a part?


I'm a polytheistic panenthiest, but in a completely different way ;)

Panenthiests believe that the world is in God, and God is in the world...but the physical world is not synonymous with God.

Similarly, I believe that Nature is in the Gods and the Gods are in Nature, but they are not synonymous.

The physical sun might be an emanation of Ra, but Ra is not the sun itself.

The Gods may manifest in nature, in a very personal way, but they can also exist independent of natural phenomena.  

An analogy for the presence of Gods in physical matter:  a God can be present in an open statue, but the God does not cease to exist if the statue gets smashed.   Similarly, Het-heru can be present in a sycamore tree.  She doesn't disappear if that tree is gone.

Do I believe in an over-arching, unifying force?  Yes, sort of.  Probably not in the same sense as most of the pantheists on this board.  I believe there is inter-dependence of being.  That, to me, is not a personal force.  It is not sentient. I do not call it "divine" or "God".  Those two words, for me, are so bound up in sentience that I cannot associate them with the connecting force I have described.  YMMV, of course.

So, hard polypanentheist.  That's me ;)
See, life is but a movement of eternal return.  Even Trees fall ~ Berlin papyrus 3024, (A man tired of life).

Live, Ausir, for all time and all eternity! Ankh Neheh Djet!

Love of Lopt

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2011, 10:36:40 pm »
Quote from: Celtag Sinkerr;5460
I am definitely a Hard Polytheist, I believe all the Gods to be individuals in their own right, and connect with whom they choose.

 
This. Although I don't consider any to be omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent (not that you said you did, just specifying). I haven't seen evidence for it.

I think that anything that created the universe is just too monumentally big to be bothered by the problems on this planet. I can see deities/beings a bit like stations in government- some deal with one planet's issues, some deal with a galaxy's but don't really deal with individual planets, some deal with the whole universe's but don't really deal with individual galaxies.

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