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Author Topic: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?  (Read 8554 times)

schwertlilie

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Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« on: July 04, 2011, 07:05:02 pm »
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

Sage

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 07:10:59 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?

 
A bit of pantheism with hard polytheism. I believe in a universal energy of sorts that ties everything together - a bit like the Dao, actually - but it's nonsentient and not a person in any sense. I believe in many different gods, but none of them are omnipotent, omniscient, etc. They've got a role to play in the universe, the same as humans and rock and dark matter. It's all part of the Great Circle of Life! :D
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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HeartShadow

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 09:12:38 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

 
Pantheist and hard polytheist - there is what Is - the Divine, the Universe, whatever.  Be it mechanistic or spiritual (I believe it's spiritual, but) it IS and that's what we have to work with.

polytheist because, well, gods exist and talk to me and it's easier than being crazy. :P .... or at least gets the crazy question out of the way and gives me time to do other stuff.

Aisling

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 09:38:09 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;1063
Pantheist and hard polytheist - there is what Is - the Divine, the Universe, whatever.  Be it mechanistic or spiritual (I believe it's spiritual, but) it IS and that's what we have to work with.

 
This.

Quote from: HeartShadow;1063

polytheist because, well, gods exist and talk to me and it's easier than being crazy. :P .... or at least gets the crazy question out of the way and gives me time to do other stuff.

 
And a whole, whole lot of this.
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Auress

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 11:24:35 am »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


I'm actually an atheist/soft polytheist/pantheist.

I believe all God/dess are man made personifications of natural forces. I believe natural forces are Divine in nature. I believe in no sentient God/dess, separate entity. Sort of a mixed bag of tricks, here.

Sage

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 11:28:03 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;1306
I'm actually an atheist/soft polytheist/pantheist.

 
I suppose I'm a bit of an agnostic, while I'm at it. It could all be in my head, and I don't think that spiritual experiences for me are necessarily indicative of wider universal workings. (Then again... I don't believe in universal deities, so it's not too much of an issue.)
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Hyacinth Belle

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 05:32:29 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?

I posted about this on the old board a while ago... here's what I said. :P

I consider myself a panentheist and polytheist. I guess the panentheist part of me is the Taoist part... I see divinity, or divine energy, in everything and beyond everything: the best name I have for this is Tao. It's not personified or self-aware.

Then I see the gods as the aware/personified part of that divine energy. This aware divinity may be connected to something physical or be beyond it (wait, or both?!... lol.). Although I hesitate to say I see the gods as the aware manifestation of Tao, that's kind of the best way I have to explain it. Hope that makes sense.
"Silent and thoughtful a prince\'s son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15

arkeiryn

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2011, 06:07:28 am »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?


Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

 
I'm most definitely a pantheist: a naturalistic pantheist to be exact.

I'm not sure where I stand on individual gods/goddesses, though. I believe that there could be gods/goddesses -- non-omnipotent ones that didn't create the universe, of course :P -- but I don't whether I believe they were created because they were worshipped and are "just" aspects moulded by human thought, or were created as non-physical entities with the universe (or evolved as such or something) and were worshipped because they existed and had power, if that makes sense.
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Altair

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 11:28:15 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;1306
I'm actually an atheist/soft polytheist/pantheist.

I believe all God/dess are man made personifications of natural forces. I believe natural forces are Divine in nature. I believe in no sentient God/dess, separate entity. Sort of a mixed bag of tricks, here.


Mostly where I'm at, though without the atheism (though they hold a special place in my heart).

Where we might differ is in sentience. I think that, to the extent that our universe is sentient (and that word may be too limited to describe it), we're it. For example, I personify the Earth as a real, manifest goddess, and we human beings are vaguely equivalent to her brain cells. Collectively we are her mind: our history = Her memory, our cultures = the facets of Her personality.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

EJay

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2011, 02:56:56 am »
Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;1580

I consider myself a panentheist and polytheist. I guess the panentheist part of me is the Taoist part... I see divinity, or divine energy, in everything and beyond everything: the best name I have for this is Tao. It's not personified or self-aware.

Then I see the gods as the aware/personified part of that divine energy. This aware divinity may be connected to something physical or be beyond it (wait, or both?!... lol.). Although I hesitate to say I see the gods as the aware manifestation of Tao, that's kind of the best way I have to explain it. Hope that makes sense.

 
Like you, I'm a panentheist and polytheist.  The difference for me is that the panentheist part (which I refer to as God, in spite of the term's connotations) is not personified or self-aware as we understand the term.  However, I believe God is fully self-aware in a way which I can't possibly fathom.  To use the human body analogy, how can a blood cell understand the self-awareness of the human being of which it is a part?

I know I'm part of something much greater than myself, but I'm trying my best to just do and be a good blood cell, knowing that I am a part of God and the god/desses are just different, possibly more manifest parts, of God.

And as a panentheist, I believe that God, like myself, is more than the sum of its parts.

Best~
Ejay
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Firaza

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2011, 12:54:31 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
I know there are definitely polytheists and pantheists (and panentheists) around the forum, but is there anyone who combines these kinds of philosophies? How do you reconcile the two (or more)?

 
I'm a hard polytheist. I think each deity is an individual separate from the others, and not simply aspects of a greater whole. I'm also an animist: I believe that everything natural (whether alive or not) is divine, but is not the divine -- in much the same way that I believe every human being possesses an inherent divinity but is not a deity.

Wrynn

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2011, 03:13:01 pm »
Quote from: Firaza;3334
I'm a hard polytheist. I think each deity is an individual separate from the others, and not simply aspects of a greater whole. I'm also an animist: I believe that everything natural (whether alive or not) is divine, but is not the divine -- in much the same way that I believe every human being possesses an inherent divinity but is not a deity.

 
i'm a Panentheist Wiccan.  But what is interesting, having been raised in christianity, since I was a kid I always knew God was immanent at the same time god is sovereign unto god a part from the universe. God is in everything, in us, and a part from everything and god is unto gods self.  

Just like saying If I built a house, its my creation, i built it, I love it, a part of me is in that house, and that house is a part of me, and I am still me, separate from the house.  Also, my kids, I help to create them, they carry a part of me and I am a part of them  but they are their own and I am my own.

Since I was a kid, this was the only understanding I had within meabout god.   But what is funny about that is no one taught me to believe that way.  In fact as a christian they always taught that god was very far away and not here and we would go to be with him when we died.

I never have had the impulse to believe anything different.  Just that now, I believe that their are two aspects to god, male and female. god the creator of all things and the goddess giver of life in all things, a comparison would be something like the goddess in the christian world would be the holy spirit here on earth, except for the christian, there is no female component to god.

I guess my reconciliation was never an issue because regardless of what others tried to teach me, I was hardwired to believe what I already believed.
)o( Blessed be,
Wrynn Aethelraed

Auress

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2011, 09:59:03 pm »
Quote from: Altair;3199
Mostly where I'm at, though without the atheism (though they hold a special place in my heart).

Where we might differ is in sentience. I think that, to the extent that our universe is sentient (and that word may be too limited to describe it), we're it. For example, I personify the Earth as a real, manifest goddess, and we human beings are vaguely equivalent to her brain cells. Collectively we are her mind: our history = Her memory, our cultures = the facets of Her personality.


You might definitely be right, here, Altair. My atheism is not as strong as it once was. It is on the wane, I'm actually starting believe that nature itself and the universe has a bit on sentience to it. You have a very unique way of defining it though, I'll have to think and meditate on that more, very interesting!

Mata

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 09:19:12 pm »
Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;1580
I posted about this on the old board a while ago... here's what I said. :P

I consider myself a panentheist and polytheist. I guess the panentheist part of me is the Taoist part... I see divinity, or divine energy, in everything and beyond everything: the best name I have for this is Tao. It's not personified or self-aware.

Then I see the gods as the aware/personified part of that divine energy. This aware divinity may be connected to something physical or be beyond it (wait, or both?!... lol.). Although I hesitate to say I see the gods as the aware manifestation of Tao, that's kind of the best way I have to explain it. Hope that makes sense.

 
This is almost exactly my views as well.

I believe that there's differently some overarching "unity" of some kind, and I think it extends beyond our own world. But I don't see it as being anywhere near understanding in human terms. It just is what it is.

As for deities, I view them as... extensions? Of whatever this unity/everythingincludingthecosmickitchensink is. But I also think that everything else is an 'extension'. Deities are merely older with more wisdom and influence than people could ever have. And they have their own roles to play, some enrich the world through their gifts, such as love, language and the like, while others animate the world and uphold it from dissolution.

As you can see, I am still figuring out how to express it eloquently :P
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treekisser

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Re: Deism, theism, panentheism, combinations thereof?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 09:47:40 pm »
Quote from: schwertlilie;998
Myself, I'm a deist + hard polytheist - I think the world was created by Someone so big and remote that They are impersonal and that They aren't interested in small existences like individual humans. The Greek gods, YHWH, Coyote, etc all occupy a space between that Someone and humans, are created and/or evolved, depending - and because they're close to humanity, they're more approachable & can take an interest in individual people.

Anyone else? :)

 
I'm an unstable theist and polytheist.

I say 'theist' because I feel there to be a God, Divine, Ultimate Reality, Whatever. 'Unstable' because I'm pretty committed to ineffability. So I don't really have an inclination as to whether that God is personal, transcendent, pantheistic, panentheistic, deistic, etc.

I say 'polytheist' because, like you, I agree that the Greek gods etc are in between. But I'm not actually a hard polytheist because, well, of the ineffability attitude. So I do feel these gods are more easily communicated with than the Divine, but whether they are essentially separate beings or somehow the same or linked to each other or linked to the Divine or the same as the Divine or whatever isn't something I feel the need to reach a settled view about.

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