collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: A Failure to Summon Death  (Read 5564 times)

veggiewolf

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 3105
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 10:05:24 am »
Quote from: yewberry;74405
Nobody wants to hear this...but it gets easier.  People want to believe that it's always going to be as brutal the second as the twenty-eighth time.  Mostly because believing this makes them seem less like monsters.  It's not true, though (at least not for most folks).  It's never easy, but it's definitely easier.

Brina

 
After having to prepare feeder mice, chicks, and rats for reptile feeding, I can say I agree with you 100%.
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8275
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 256
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 07:16:38 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;74405
Nobody wants to hear this...but it gets easier.  People want to believe that it's always going to be as brutal the second as the twenty-eighth time.  Mostly because believing this makes them seem less like monsters.  It's not true, though (at least not for most folks).  It's never easy, but it's definitely easier.

 
Oh, certainly!  I wasn't thinling of future instances; I was thinking of a single instance - if I screwed up the first attempt, I'd be too distraught to manage a second attempt, immediately after and on the same animal.

Now, if I were in a position where I had to (it clearly needed done, and no one else to do it... which, come to think, could perfectly well happen on a busy city street; cities are brimful of people less able to face the idea than I), I could probably push past my fears of screwing it up.  And if I did, and succeeded, I'd have a stronger sense of my ability to do it properly, which'd make the next time much easier.  Or quite possibly even if I didn't succeed - it might reduce me to horrified guilt in the moment, but I'd know more about how for the next time.

(Also, interestingly, I am more capable of handling it today, having thought about it, imagined myself into the scene, etc, than I was yesterday when I posted.  Yay for being able to learn from vicarious experience!)

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Annie Roonie

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 915
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 09:29:48 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;74404
I kind of disagree.  We'd never learn how to do anything if we didn't practice first (my quote in your sig line).  And yes, we make a muddle of things (even the death of unfortunate critters), but practice is often needed to do it well and painlessly.

Brina


You know I never really thought of it this way. I've always just seen and felt the emotions of the person who can't, like my friend with her porch gifts, and thought "that needs to be tabled and this animal needs to pass" etc. But I think you have something here. I'm not going to be a stone's throw away from her forever and eventually she is going to have to learn how to handle it on her own. I can't speak to all circumstances of course, but with my friend I can see your point. Porch presents from cats are pretty frequent after all for many people.

Still, I have to admit that I do not hope for nor look forward to learning how to deal with larger animals in this circumstance. But if the day came when I had to, I would like to be able to do it well.

DancesWithHorses

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 231
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2012, 11:19:50 am »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;74537

Still, I have to admit that I do not hope for nor look forward to learning how to deal with larger animals in this circumstance. But if the day came when I had to, I would like to be able to do it well.


My grandfather and my father both told me what to do with a large animal if there is no gun handy. Nothing frustrates me more than deer that are hit by vehicles and the driver is unable to put the poor thing out of its pain.
 
Quote from: yewberry;74405
Nobody wants to hear this...but it gets easier.  People want to believe that it's always going to be as brutal the second as the twenty-eighth time.  Mostly because believing this makes them seem less like monsters.  It's not true, though (at least not for most folks).  It's never easy, but it's definitely easier.

Brina

 
It does get easier. We have to cull out dozens of goat kids every year, and most of the time, we can do it but there are nights when we just can't anymore. And those are the nights I call my friends and ask who wants some free goats. There is nothing worse than standing in front of a pen of 20 and knowing that you have to summon death for them. On one hand I love kidding season but on the other, I dread it.

Maybe easier isn't the right word, more so you learn to deal with it and accept it. You learn not to think about it and make it as fast and clean as possible. What makes it worse is people who don't understand. I don't like it but it must be done. I've watched grown men cry because they had to put an animal to sleep.
Jinx or Jinxy :)
Add a dash of folklore, a few centuries of farmer\'s blood and mix well.
[/B]

yewberry

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1775
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2012, 02:43:57 pm »
Quote from: DancesWithHorses;74595
Maybe easier isn't the right word, more so you learn to deal with it and accept it. You learn not to think about it and make it as fast and clean as possible. What makes it worse is people who don't understand. I don't like it but it must be done.


It's definitely easier for me, physically.  I was shaking so badly the first time I killed a chicken...well, it was awful.  Steady hands make for quick and painless death.  Practice has made, if not perfect, at least competent.

Quote
I've watched grown men cry because they had to put an animal to sleep.


When we had to put our old cat Annabella to sleep, I pre-paid for the procedure, telling the folks at the clinic I was going to be too much of a mess to be fumbling with credit cards afterward.  One of them said, "Oh, well, isn't your husband going to be there?"  I just blinked at her and said as sarcastically as possible, "Yeah...I'm sure he'll be a pillar of strength."  As predicted, we both totally melted down when the time came and had to walk around for a while (after putting her sad little body in the trunk) to calm down enough to drive home.

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2933
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 324
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2012, 07:11:06 pm »
Quote from: DancesWithHorses;74595
My grandfather and my father both told me what to do with a large animal if there is no gun handy.


Which is...?

(The knowledge might come in handy someday.)
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

2Rosehips

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 4
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2012, 08:44:26 pm »
Quote from: Altair;74274
A few days ago, on a lunchtime stroll around midtown Manhattan, I passed a pigeon that apparently had been hit by a car. It was flopping around on the sidewalk in a pathetic and hopeless attempt to right its twisted body. A well-intentioned young woman was trying to reach some humane society on her cellphone to come take the bird away to help it, presumably at some imagined pigeon healing center. (It was hard not to guffaw at her naivete.)

I stood there and knew the only thing that could be done for the bird was to end its suffering quickly. No doubt it was my imagination, but at one point the bird stopped flopping and seemed to look right at me with a plea to do just that. I figured it would be fairly simple: take the bird in my hands, try to calm it, and then give its neck a sharp, sudden twist.

I couldn't do it.

My beliefs say the gods are not only around us, but in us; in a very real sense, they *are* us. But I didn't have the heart/courage to summon the goddess of death, to make my hands Hers for a moment, when clearly that was what was needed.

What would you have done in that situation? What would your beliefs have called upon you to do? And in a very real, practical sense, what role does death play in your daily life? What role do you think it should play?

[Like many nature-based pagans, I also believe in the importance of balance to the natural order, including (especially) the balance between life and death. I think some mainstream religions fetishize life. Maybe because we're coming up on the autumn equinox, a time of balance, this incident and its implications keep returning to my mind...]


I don't think you should worry about it..death like most of life's experience is usually something we learn about step by step..I don't think you need to worry about whether you should develop the skill..if you need it when you have been prepared sufficiently you will feel calm & ready..
Keep calm & eat a vegan cupcake:lub:

DancesWithHorses

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 231
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2012, 09:20:11 pm »
Quote from: Altair;74630
Which is...?

(The knowledge might come in handy someday.)


Hammer between and slightly behind the ears. There's a bone piece there that if hit, will instantly kill them. Tire iron works too.
Jinx or Jinxy :)
Add a dash of folklore, a few centuries of farmer\'s blood and mix well.
[/B]

R03e

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 122
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2012, 11:20:12 pm »
Quote from: Altair;74306
Sorry, but that sounds like an awful thing to make kids do. Especially if the adult is the one who injured the bird, causing the situation in the first place.

 
I thought the same thing. It not even merciful if it was a slow death, fast n painless.

I can't even kill a spider but that could b due to my conscience because it wasn't a mercy killing. I was going to clean out this tub @ a guest house I used to work @ n there was a spider in there. I don't know y but I thought because it was in the tub I might as well wash it down the drain. Well watching it struggle made me change my mind n save it just in time. I felt guilty for committing attempted murder to an innocent spider. If it was already dead it wouldn't matter but its another when alive. That the first n only time I ever thought o killing a bug.

Getting back; n subject I very to admit I admire the fact u r the type o person that would only consider killing solely out o mercy as oppose to sport or just because they r afraid o said animal.  Perhaps the reason y u couldn't do it was because the death Goddess knew that there might have been another way perhaps fixing the wing or something.  It is really hard to tell though especially if u don't do it on a regular bases.
R03e

Lula

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 43
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 12:06:49 am »
Quote from: Altair;74274

What would you have done in that situation? What would your beliefs have called upon you to do? And in a very real, practical sense, what role does death play in your daily life? What role do you think it should play?

 
I probably wouldn't have felt responsible for putting it out of its misery, and I might have just moved on. I certainly wouldn't have tried to kill it with my bare hands. (Probably more because, as others have said, I'm not certain I would even know what to do aside from just wrenching its head around.)

Death is ever present in my life because I eat meat. I have a pretty strong conviction that if I am unwilling to kill something myself, clean it, prepare it, I have NO BUSINESS eating it. I know that there are many people that are happy to compartmentalize that part of their lives, but for me, it just makes my chest tighten with the wrongness of it all. It is deeply frustrating and horribly sad to me. I suppose I find that we should have a spiritual connection to the creatures we eat, and by denying the fact that they lived and were slaughtered for our consumption, we deny the animal any dignity it may have had.

I live in the suburbs and I have never killed any livestock. The only thing I've killed and eaten is a fish. However, I have a flock of four chickens living in my tiny backyard, and I will kill and eat them when their time as laying hens comes to an end. YES, I am emotionally conflicted. I know that there is nothing more wrong with eating the chickens I raised by hand, but I can't admire their silly ways or pretty feathers without a hint of sadness.

I am pretty certain that once I have experience slaughtering my own hens, I will be far more comfortable, but I never want to lose that sense of respect for the animal whose life I am taking. It is a natural, wholesome thing, but death and endings are always emotional.

(On another note, I have found that as my respect for the animals I eat grows, and as my sense of the cycle of life becomes more complete, the more merciful I am toward the little crawly critters like spiders and beetles and the like. I am loath to kill them for no reason but their "ickiness"! Poisonous bugs and bugs that eat my garden beware though! They gave me a reason to squish em!)

EJay

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 269
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 07:36:10 am »
Quote from: Lula;75088

I am pretty certain that once I have experience slaughtering my own hens, I will be far more comfortable, but I never want to lose that sense of respect for the animal whose life I am taking. It is a natural, wholesome thing, but death and endings are always emotional.

(On another note, I have found that as my respect for the animals I eat grows, and as my sense of the cycle of life becomes more complete, the more merciful I am toward the little crawly critters like spiders and beetles and the like. I am loath to kill them for no reason but their "ickiness"! Poisonous bugs and bugs that eat my garden beware though! They gave me a reason to squish em!)


I've just found that I have an issue if I have to be the one to kill.  I do it in my house when i need to and I'll kill that bi-atch skeeter drinking my blood, but I never do it lightly.

Organic to me is secondary to free-range.  I don't want hormone-injected chicken, but I'd rather eat a chicken that had a chance to stretch its legs.

I love meat.  Mostly I love cow.  I had a chance to participate in ranch life and got to eat some cow that I knew.  I'm good with that.

But I didn't have to kill the cow.

I'm just not good at that part.  I know that.

I had my sheepdog put down while I held her.  I killed her.  Still haven't reconciled with that.
If you understand, things are just as they are.  If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4849
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 729
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2012, 11:32:17 am »
Quote from: R03e;75086
I thought the same thing. It not even merciful if it was a slow death, fast n painless.

I can't even kill a spider but that could b due to my conscience because it wasn't a mercy killing. I was going to clean out this tub @ a guest house I used to work @ n there was a spider in there. I don't know y but I thought because it was in the tub I might as well wash it down the drain. Well watching it struggle made me change my mind n save it just in time. I felt guilty for committing attempted murder to an innocent spider. If it was already dead it wouldn't matter but its another when alive. That the first n only time I ever thought o killing a bug.

Getting back; n subject I very to admit I admire the fact u r the type o person that would only consider killing solely out o mercy as oppose to sport or just because they r afraid o said animal.  Perhaps the reason y u couldn't do it was because the death Goddess knew that there might have been another way perhaps fixing the wing or something.  It is really hard to tell though especially if u don't do it on a regular bases.

 
A Reminder:
Please do not use netspeak abbreviations when posting.  This is explicitly forbidden in the rules which you agreed to when you signed up on the board.  If you need a refresher on the rules, there is a link in the taskbar at the top of the page on the right.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Fier

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Michigan
  • Posts: 820
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 7
  • Daughter of the Cosmos
    • View Profile
  • Religion: FlameKeeping
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2012, 10:32:23 pm »
Quote from: Altair;74274

What would you have done in that situation? What would your beliefs have called upon you to do? And in a very real, practical sense, what role does death play in your daily life? What role do you think it should play?

 
I couldn't do it either.

WARNING --- SAD KITTEN STORY AHEAD

Yesterday while on a search one of our dogs caught a feral kitten. He was beautiful. Orange and white, still with bright blue eyes. The team brought him back to base and we saw that he had a small spot of blood on him and seemed to have a lump on his belly. We wrapped him up in a hat while the other teams were finishing their assignments. We knew he was injured and needed to go the vet, but we thought maybe he'd be okay.

I took him out the hat to examine him again and we all gasped in our despair. His poor little belly was swollen up almost as big the rest of him. He had severe internal bleeding. There was no way he was going to make it.

Every once in a while he'd try to walk forward, but he couldn't move his back end. He'd try to mew, but just a breathy "huh" would come out. We still had 4 people out in the woods that needed to come back before we could leave.

I thought about this thread and how badly he was suffering, but I couldn't do it. I was afraid that I would only cause him more pain if I tried to end his life. I sat with him in my lap hoping Death would hurry. Eventually everyone came back and we could leave. A couple team members took him to a nearby emergency vet. There wasn't anything the vets could do for him either. They put him to sleep.

I grumbled a lot at Death that evening. We couldn't find the death we were looking for in the woods and it wouldn't come fast enough to that poor kitten. Normally one doesn't seek out death, but then when we do it is elusive. Sigh.

DancesWithHorses

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 231
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2012, 03:16:37 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;76163
I couldn't do it either.

WARNING --- SAD KITTEN STORY AHEAD
A couple team members took him to a nearby emergency vet. There wasn't anything the vets could do for him either. They put him to sleep.

I grumbled a lot at Death that evening. We couldn't find the death we were looking for in the woods and it wouldn't come fast enough to that poor kitten. Normally one doesn't seek out death, but then when we do it is elusive. Sigh.


Cats are incredibly hard to put to sleep so in this case, since you didn't know how, don't feel bad at all. You cared, you knew it was time for him to go and you made sure he got to gone in a proper way. My dad knows how to when it comes to cats and even he says they are the hardest animal.
Jinx or Jinxy :)
Add a dash of folklore, a few centuries of farmer\'s blood and mix well.
[/B]

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8275
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 256
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: A Failure to Summon Death
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2012, 07:26:20 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;76163
I sat with him in my lap hoping Death would hurry.

 
Poor baby!

Sometimes, that's all we can do, is provide comfort and companionship until the time comes.  You did, so you did good.

(((FierFlye)))

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
1969 Views
Last post May 02, 2012, 03:47:49 am
by Blossomingmind
33 Replies
4683 Views
Last post January 05, 2014, 01:38:23 pm
by Kairos
8 Replies
3200 Views
Last post July 03, 2016, 07:41:19 am
by LilacRaveclaw
3 Replies
1019 Views
Last post September 06, 2018, 10:36:09 am
by ehbowen
37 Replies
1607 Views
Last post October 24, 2019, 08:08:21 am
by Altair

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 27
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 3
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall