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Author Topic: The Reconstructionist Book Problem  (Read 10477 times)

Shine

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #165 on: January 15, 2013, 04:27:26 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91433
I know that you recently shared about Bast with regards to the Lady of the Stars - not a  strictly Kemetic space, but I don't believe you were shot down there. Which is not to say that I've read every single reaction to you on this board, just that's the one I remember off the top of my head.


I haven't shared a quarter of what I believe about Bast. Maybe not even a sixteenth. She is a wonderful goddess and it makes me sad that I will always be limited in my ability to share her greatness with the world.

You won't find anything contentious from me, because I've always bowed out. I've always just given into whatever seems most popular because I don't want to fight. I want to fit in so badly with my fellow Kemetics, but I am done with the Kemetic community. I am done with recon community in general. I will continue with recon methodologies, but overall it's interfaith for me all the way.

Quote
I'm confused because I honestly can't see how you sharing about your religious experiences would get you shot down here. If I'm wrong, then I'd really like to know, since TC is an important safe space for me, and if what you're saying is true then I need to rethink some really core assumptions about this place.

 
TC is fine. It is a safe space by its very nature. There is nothing like that for Kemetics, though. I'm tired of trying to fit in. It's not about being a BNP, one of the "cool kids", or having the most toys. It's about being able to share knowing that whatever you share is needed and wanted, even if it has to be reshaped into something else.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Darkhawk

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #166 on: January 15, 2013, 04:28:33 pm »
Quote from: Maps;91436
Okay, great, perfect. That wasn't my qualm with the thread, as you've so expertly ignored yet again.


If your qualms are not with my subject or comments, then I cannot meaningfully respond to them.  Be well.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Shine

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2013, 04:32:46 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;91437
I...really don't think you would, unless my ideas about what TC is are massively skewed.  You might be asked questions in the context of "debate and discuss" but that's not the same thing in my book.

(I'd be happy to talk to you in PM if you'd rather not go into things here.)


You can if you want, I guess, but I don't know if there's anything to talk about.

Quote
So, you wrote something that wasn't exactly true because you felt like you'd be attacked?


It would just be nice to fit in, for once in my life.

Quote
Have you considered talking some of this out with the staff here?

 
What's there to talk about?
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Sage

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #168 on: January 15, 2013, 05:00:16 pm »
Quote from: Shine;91439
I haven't shared a quarter of what I believe about Bast. Maybe not even a sixteenth. She is a wonderful goddess and it makes me sad that I will always be limited in my ability to share her greatness with the world.

You won't find anything contentious from me, because I've always bowed out. I've always just given into whatever seems most popular because I don't want to fight. I want to fit in so badly with my fellow Kemetics, but I am done with the Kemetic community. I am done with recon community in general. I will continue with recon methodologies, but overall it's interfaith for me all the way.

TC is fine. It is a safe space by its very nature. There is nothing like that for Kemetics, though. I'm tired of trying to fit in. It's not about being a BNP, one of the "cool kids", or having the most toys. It's about being able to share knowing that whatever you share is needed and wanted, even if it has to be reshaped into something else.

 
Alright, it seemed like I had completely missed that you were talking about just Kemetic-specific spaces. I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

I have little exposure to any specific Kemetic community - my brief forays into the House of Netjer are it - and even less experience with any recon spaces. It sounds like you've had some really nasty experiences there, and for what it's worth I'm sorry things went down the way they did.

For the most part though, I feel like TC is not those places. BNPs aren't revered, books (academic or pop) aren't gods, and the same principles of admitting what's UPG and backing up what isn't apply to everyone. It's going to be up to you how much you feel comfortable sharing here, but there shouldn't be attacks, dogpiling, or belittling your experiences of your deity. If there are, contact the mods to sort things out.

Changing how you react and post with the idea of fitting in with some Kemetic community ideal sounds really tiring and unhappy. I really don't think that's necessary here to fit in.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Shine

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2013, 05:36:58 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91450
Alright, it seemed like I had completely missed that you were talking about just Kemetic-specific spaces. I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

Yeah.

Quote
I have little exposure to any specific Kemetic community - my brief forays into the House of Netjer are it - and even less experience with any recon spaces. It sounds like you've had some really nasty experiences there, and for what it's worth I'm sorry things went down the way they did.

The House is a pretty good community. A little too much "hold hands and sing 'kumbiyah'" every now and again, but at least you don't feel like you have to walk on eggshells when you're there.

I've met a lot of awesome recons. But I've also met a lot of mean ones. Too many, in fact. Kemetics have always been some of the worst. Maybe I attract them? I mean, you can't convince me that everybody's like this.

Quote
Changing how you react and post with the idea of fitting in with some Kemetic community ideal sounds really tiring and unhappy. I really don't think that's necessary here to fit in.

TBH, if you want to "hang out" with any community, there's a certain amount of things you have to, for lack of a better term, accept. But there has to be some level of give and take, and I don't feel like I'm allowed to take. It's just give, give, and give.

It's like hearing, "give me your agreement or it's dogpile time." "Give me your views on the subject so long as they're mostly like mine." "Give me your religious practice in an easy-to-digest form that you've painstakingly pieced together for two years so I can tell you why you've done everything wrong."

Frankly, I have nothing more to give.

*shrugs* It's end of the day where I am, and I realize it doesn't matter because I'm not trying to fit in with my fellow Kemetics anymore. Done. :\ Taking my toys and putting them away while doing interfaith stuff.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:37:53 pm by Shine »
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Lokabrenna

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2013, 11:55:52 pm »
Quote from: Shine;91453
Yeah.

The House is a pretty good community. A little too much "hold hands and sing 'kumbiyah'" every now and again, but at least you don't feel like you have to walk on eggshells when you're there.

I've met a lot of awesome recons. But I've also met a lot of mean ones. Too many, in fact. Kemetics have always been some of the worst. Maybe I attract them? I mean, you can't convince me that everybody's like this.

TBH, if you want to "hang out" with any community, there's a certain amount of things you have to, for lack of a better term, accept. But there has to be some level of give and take, and I don't feel like I'm allowed to take. It's just give, give, and give.

It's like hearing, "give me your agreement or it's dogpile time." "Give me your views on the subject so long as they're mostly like mine." "Give me your religious practice in an easy-to-digest form that you've painstakingly pieced together for two years so I can tell you why you've done everything wrong."

Frankly, I have nothing more to give.

*shrugs* It's end of the day where I am, and I realize it doesn't matter because I'm not trying to fit in with my fellow Kemetics anymore. Done. :\ Taking my toys and putting them away while doing interfaith stuff.


Shine, it sounds like you need to do as I do: Do your own thing and screw anyone who tells you ur doin' it wrong! It's worked fine for me, but granted, I don't think I have a whole lot to share, being neither god-touched nor particularly well-versed in lore, but I'm also not recon, so that helps.

Shine

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #171 on: January 16, 2013, 12:56:36 am »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;91536
Shine, it sounds like you need to do as I do: Do your own thing and screw anyone who tells you ur doin' it wrong! It's worked fine for me, but granted, I don't think I have a whole lot to share, being neither god-touched nor particularly well-versed in lore, but I'm also not recon, so that helps.

 
Perhaps so. I forgot the most important element in all of this, but I have to mull it over before I can make anything of it. I'll probably post about it in my blog since it'd be waaaaaay off-topic here.

Thanks for your input.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Micheál

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Re: The Reconstructionist Book Problem
« Reply #172 on: January 17, 2013, 06:27:57 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;90068

And if the process always has to go through a loop of "let me look that up in the University of Foobaz Press", that's not actually functional in the here and now.

If we look outside the pagan world: yes, there are religious scholars.  Ask any rabbi how much reading is required to take on that role.  Or a Catholic priest, with a half-dozen years in the seminary.  But: that level of work is not required to be good, well-rounded, or informed in those religions.  It is a specialist task, and the majority of people in those religions know what is required to conduct their religion, possibly more in fields of interest, and leave specialised knowledge to the specialists.

That's the big things I've always paid attention to. I respect all of my Reconstructionist friends' methodology, share a bit of common ground with them myself, however where I scratched my head was the need for some circles to clearly disassociate themselves with "neo-paganism." Technically Pagan/Polytheistic Reconstructionism is still covered under the Neo-Pagan umbrella. Due to a mainstream interest that may have sparked non-academic publishers&creating this thing in modern pagan communities called "fake-lore," I don't know how all adherents got painted with one brush as surely just as academic books were written for a wide audience of people with an interest in that history, where did someone come up with the idea that neo-pagans aren't counted among them?

As has been said in relation to academic books not being meant or really written for reconstructionists, this is precisely why they shouldn't be referred to as the glory of in religions existing in a modern setting. Often the product of 'back-engineering' in reconstructionism is something very much akin to what's done in other forms of neo-paganism, and neither may be actually intact to what happened then being that they exist in a modern context. If they're "inspired" or "based" on an historic influence then what happens when that history changes like the druid orders that believed the same "history" about Stonehenge? Historians&Scholars definitely don't target their work towards pagan audiences, however we do know of those that acknowledge that this audience exists. We know Ronald Hutton is aware of it. In Irish academia, before Professor Ó hÓgáin passed on made appearances at Save Tara campaigns, and gave a talk at heritages centres like Cruachan ran by pagans like my friend Lora(Wiccan) Who was among his audience there? Mostly Wiccans&Neo-Druids with an interest in history&scholarship who know how to practice their paths quite well. One of the Wiccans had a Celtic Studies degree, and many of the others who were archaeologists, and others that worked in museums, and similar fields. All of which that live in the modern culture of which Ó hÓgáin wrote&of what Reconstructionists want to tie on to.

Therefore in regards to practicing a religion I can see where academic books may be a guiding light especially if you follow a methodology like Reconstructionism, but I fail to see how they're the be&end all. Most of my Recon friends wouldn't say so either, but as I said, mean this for those circles that do. Especially in the wake of neo-pagan stereotypes of not appreciating academia. "Wicca" seems to be a big name in that regard, however every Traditional one I've met shares that interest indeed. Wicca happens to be a priesthood itself, and back when I was a Neophyte was required to have knowledge of pre-Christian history, mythology, have studied comparative religions, and have quite a few scholarly sources before I could even be taken on for training. I sure don't need a degree to practice my religion. I don't think it's needed, but I can see where it would be a great help in a methodology like Reconstructionism as long as it's complimented by practice.

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