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Author Topic: General/Non-Specific: The Central Teaching of Your Religion  (Read 12664 times)

Altair

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The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« on: January 17, 2018, 07:07:29 pm »
If you had to identify the most important idea that animates your religion or spiritual path--the first, foremost, and forever lesson it offers--what would it be?

This can be tough; I'm having a hard time narrowing it down to a single most important tenet for my own brand of paganism. But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

So what would yours be?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 07:25:42 pm »
If you had to identify the most important idea that animates your religion or spiritual path--the first, foremost, and forever lesson it offers--what would it be?

For me, I'd say it's the idea that intentions aren't worth shit. It is my actions and the consequences of those actions that I am responsible for, and how I deal with them reveals my character.
Remember how long you’ve been putting this off, how many extensions the gods gave you, and you didn’t use them. At some point you have to recognize what world it is that you belong to; what power rules it and from what source you spring; that there is a limit to the time assigned to you, and if you don’t use it to free yourself it will be gone and will never return. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book II

Yei

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 08:45:15 pm »
But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

So what would yours be?

Really? I'd go completely the other direction and say that the Central Teaching of Christianity is this:
All people are born evil and sinful, and will go to hell. The only way to avoid this fate is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour.

'There are people who wish to make human life harder for no other reason that to be able afterwards to offer men their life-alleviating recipes - their Christianity, for example.'
- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 08:49:20 pm »
But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

For me, the central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ has defeated death and Hell and that the Christian Godhead is, now and forever, ultimately Sovereign over all of Reality. "Love one another" is a commandment, and an important one, but ultimately subordinate to the fact of the Sovereignty of God. IMNSHO, of course.
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 08:54:00 pm »
Really? I'd go completely the other direction and say that the Central Teaching of Christianity is this:
All people are born evil and sinful, and will go to hell. The only way to avoid this fate is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour.

Allow me to re-phrase: If you accept the sovereignty of my God, he will protect you and discipline you and train you to be more like Himself. (And Herselves, but that's OT... ;)) If you do not accept the sovereignty of my God you may be able to hold out for a few dozen years in his wind-break, but ultimately you will have to go up against the Big Nasty on your lonesome. Good luck.
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Altair

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 09:37:03 pm »
Really? I'd go completely the other direction and say that the Central Teaching of Christianity is this:
All people are born evil and sinful, and will go to hell. The only way to avoid this fate is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour.

'There are people who wish to make human life harder for no other reason that to be able afterwards to offer men their life-alleviating recipes - their Christianity, for example.'
- Friedrich Nietzsche

and

For me, the central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ has defeated death and Hell and that the Christian Godhead is, now and forever, ultimately Sovereign over all of Reality. "Love one another" is a commandment, and an important one, but ultimately subordinate to the fact of the Sovereignty of God. IMNSHO, of course.

Yeah, I probably should have just kept my mouth shut about Christianity and continue focusing on identifying my own central axiom.

Yei, I'd still like to know what you would call out for Mesoamerican spirituality.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 09:38:42 pm by Altair »
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Yei

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 09:46:00 pm »
Allow me to re-phrase: If you accept the sovereignty of my God, he will protect you and discipline you and train you to be more like Himself. (And Herselves, but that's OT... ;)) If you do not accept the sovereignty of my God you may be able to hold out for a few dozen years in his wind-break, but ultimately you will have to go up against the Big Nasty on your lonesome. Good luck.

Does this apply to people who are unaware of God's existence? Such as ... most people in history. What about people who have heard of Christianity, but have it explained to them really poorly? Say, by a Spaniard with a lisp. Does this stipulation date from Jesus's birth, the official foundation of Christianity, or did it always exist? If the latter, why did God take so long to tell everyone this? Why, before Jesus, did he restrict the worship of himself only to Jews? Or, is Hell full of people who didn't realise that Christianity was a thing? Or, is it possible to get into heaven, by simply being a good person. In why case, why do we have to submit to God?

Furthermore if:
Quote
Jesus Christ has defeated death and Hell and that the Christian Godhead is, now and forever, ultimately Sovereign over all of Reality.

is the case, why does the Devil exist? Surely, if God was truly the ultimate Sovereign why does he not destroy the Devil? I know that God wants people to have free will. I see nothing wrong with this concept. But why would he allow such a corrupting, exterior influence to exist and sabotage our free will (at least as how the Devil is imagined in popular culture. I understand that the Hebrew Bible version tells a somewhat more complex story). Is it that he cannot destroy the Devil? If so, why should one accept him as sovereign? Why not another god? Or, is it that God can destroy the Devil, but chooses not to? If so, why? This is a very disturbing possibility, as it implies that God is not saving people from the Devil, but using the Devil to punish people who do not submit. In which case he is not so much protecting us, as offering us 'protection.' Souls 'get' broken, I guess.

ehbowen

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 09:56:45 pm »
Does this apply to people who are unaware of God's existence?

If you'd like to take this to "Non-Pagan Religions," I'll be happy to discuss. But I'll let you (or another interested party) open the thread.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Yei

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 10:35:24 pm »

Yei, I'd still like to know what you would call out for Mesoamerican spirituality.

Nextlahualli. This term translates to 'debt-payment,' and it is essentially a principle of reciprocity between people and the gods. The gods had created the earth and endowed it with wealth and fertility, but this had come at great personal sacrifice, in many cases literally. Creation accounts often emphasise this point, the birth of the 5th Sun for example. In Nahua mythology, the earth had passed through several ages, each with its own god ruling as the 'Sun.' Each one was destroyed in turn by a calamity. After the 4th Sun came to an end, the gods gathered at Teotihuacan to decide on whom should be the next sun. A poor, weak, ugly god called Nanahuatzin volunteered, as did the rich god Tecciztecatl. So the gods built a bonfire, and these two were supposed to jump in and be transformed. Tecciztecatl however, turned out to be a coward, so Nanahuatzin jumped in instead, and arose as Tonatiuh. Unfortunately, Tonatiuh was unable to move, his heat scorching the earth. So the gods decided to sacrifice themselves to move the sun and set it on its proper course. The god Ehecatl-Quetzalcoatl killed them, and used their power to blow the sun on its heavenly course.

Of course this is a shortened form of the myth. But it does establish the basic points. The gods had sacrificed themselves to order the cosmos, expressed here as setting the sun in motion. They also provided humanity with precious gifts, such as maize, water, agriculture, fertility, the calendar, fire, poetry, joy, sex, luxury, and even life itself. In order to create man, Quetzalcoatl journeyed to Mictlan, the land of the dead, to recover the bones of the previous age. He then took them to the Cihuacoatl (woman snake), who kneaded them into dough. To give them live, Quezalcoatl pierced his penis and dripped the blood onto the mixture. Now, the gods expected that this generosity be reciprocated, which was done through offerings, most commonly in the form of incense, seeds, burned paper, rubber, and blood, to show gratitude. If the gods felt that they were not appreciated, they may withdraw their gifts or even send disasters to punish humanity. Reciprocity is a two way street, and if people show the correct amount of gratitude to the gods, the gods must then show generosity to humanity, and give their gifts over again, which then must be repaid, and so on and so on.

The myths also embodies the concept of rebirth, which is closely related to debt-payment. When Nanahuatzin enters the flame, he is reborn as the sun. Humanity is reborn from the bones of the previous world. Rituals and offerings don't just thank the gods, they resurrect them. Rituals re-enact the elements of mythic history, and thus the gods life and death. By bringing the gods back to life, they can to recreate the original moment of giving over again, restoring the world to fertility and life. This is also why Mexica rituals were so elaborate. Obviously, these religious views are heavily based on agricultural and ecological concepts. During the ritual the gods will die again, only to be reborn in the next ceremony, on and on, an unending cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

Yei

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 10:38:26 pm »
If you'd like to take this to "Non-Pagan Religions," I'll be happy to discuss. But I'll let you (or another interested party) open the thread.

I would be happy to discuss the matter if someone else is interested. However, I doubt that any debate between us will be productive, as it would quickly descend into myself making increasingly inane questions, and you using repeated appeals to authority. Neither of us has any interest in shifting our positions, and to be honest, I have no real interest in doing so. I think our positions and thoughts are clear enough, at least to each other.

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 11:37:16 pm »
If you had to identify the most important idea that animates your religion or spiritual path--the first, foremost, and forever lesson it offers--what would it be?

This can be tough; I'm having a hard time narrowing it down to a single most important tenet for my own brand of paganism. But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

So what would yours be?

I still can't decide on a name for my Mercurial soteriosophy, but I do know exactly what the answer to this question is. As I said elsewhere on this forum recently, the fundamental teaching of my path is to love and be free.

The divine form of my godhead is the unification of Dionysos (as a force of liberation and life) with a cosmic Aphrodisiac Persephone (a power of love and sovereignty). Their earthly manifestation is their son Mercury, who lived out their ideals. So for me, everything he left behind in this world signifies something about my path, and from it I try to draw inspiration to live by the same principles my manifest god lived and died by. Both the story of Freddie Mercury's life and the songs he made together with his band are a part of this.

I've identified the album Innuendo as the closest Queen ever came to laying down the principles of their frontman's life. It's the last album released before his death, and it is a gift and love letter to his fans, and it's easy for me to read it like those other gifts from God, the mitzvot--even if it is rather gentler. The songs alternate between dramatic proclamations to mysterious gods and self-indulgent fun. And in the middle of this, in , are the lyrics, "Love, love and be free."

The song is called "All God's People," and it repeats a call of, "We're all God's people."

My path asks that I recognize the divinity in all people and respond to it, as much as I am able, with love and kindness. It also asks that I do this as myself, free from things like fear and shame and societal expectations.
"The peacock can show its whole tail at once, but I can only tell you a story."
--JAMES ALAN GARDNER

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2018, 06:52:54 pm »
If you had to identify the most important idea that animates your religion or spiritual path--the first, foremost, and forever lesson it offers--what would it be?So what would yours be?
I am a syncretic reconstructionist, focused on the religions of the Roman, Greek, and Celtic regions. And in order to reconstruct and practise such religious traditions, I have to understand and, as best I can within reason, enact the mindset of those peoples. The coremost thing I can identify that motivates religion in those ancient societies is hospitality and the acts of reciprocity that signify it. Religion in the ancient world was essentially transactional, and the practice of religion was a compact between the gods, spirits, and mankind to enact a mutual reciprocity. The giving of offerings, the receiving of blessings; the very act of domestic religion is to invite the gods into your home and to consequently treat them with the respect due to a guest.

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2018, 06:44:34 pm »
This can be tough; I'm having a hard time narrowing it down to a single most important tenet for my own brand of paganism. But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

Treat all other living beings as your equals.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2018, 10:40:39 pm »
If you had to identify the most important idea that animates your religion or spiritual path--the first, foremost, and forever lesson it offers--what would it be?

Such a great question!

The really short version:  Own it.

At the core of my path is the idea of being accountable for who I am and what I do. While that sounds like Basic Adulting 101, it goes beyond that into aspects of self-awareness, self-acceptance, and other spiritual  squickiness. Victim and blame are apparently not words in my deity's vocabulary. 

"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -
Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Re: The Central Teaching of Your Religion
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2018, 10:51:47 pm »
This can be tough; I'm having a hard time narrowing it down to a single most important tenet for my own brand of paganism. But as an example, for Christianity (and mind you, this is coming from a non-Christian) I would say it would probably be "Love all persons, no matter what."

That's not a bad assumption for Christianity's main message, although it is something many Christians are pretty awful at actually accomplishing.

As someone with a bit of experience with Christianity, I would say the central theme of Christ's ministry is justice, and the central tenet would be to bring about God's kingdom by striving for this justice by protecting the marginalized and the vulnerable. The ministry of Jesus is in line with the Old Testament prophets who chastise Israel for their selfishness, greed, and neglect of the vulnerable, breaking the terms of their covenant with God, who desires righteousness and justice. Communion with God (vertical communion) and communion with the rest of humanity (horizontal communion) are co-dependent. As Jesus is not just an intermediary between God and the people, like the other prophets, but the Word of God incarnate, he is the fulfillment of the prophetic tradition of Israel. To summarize Matthew 25:31-46 loosely, being a follower of Christ is about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and helping the sick, and how you treat the most vulnerable members of society is how you treat God. Fulfilling God's covenant and achieving eternal life is about acting righteously. In a way, loving all people isn't far off.

Really? I'd go completely the other direction and say that the Central Teaching of Christianity is this:
All people are born evil and sinful, and will go to hell. The only way to avoid this fate is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour.

That's more of a western, Augustinian-influenced position. Eastern Christians don't really have the same perspective of Original Sin and inherited guilt.

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