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Author Topic: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire  (Read 14228 times)

Finn

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2013, 12:43:28 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;116390
Does anyone know where in the books the religions are more explicitly explained? I'm reading the first book, and I would have no idea what the passing references to the Seven or the Old Gods mean if I hadn't looked them up online.

 
You get more information as the series goes on, but there's no "this is how the religion got started. This is what it believes... etc" pamphlet or anything written by GRRM. If you want something like that you have to rely on the wikia/fan sites work.
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Nyktelios

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 06:28:25 pm »
Quote from: Finn;116408
You get more information as the series goes on, but there's no "this is how the religion got started. This is what it believes... etc" pamphlet or anything written by GRRM. If you want something like that you have to rely on the wikia/fan sites work.

 
Oh ok, thanks.

Back when the show first started, someone who knew I was interested in religion recommended it to me because of the religious aspects of the story, which are pretty interesting, I have to admit. When he was telling me about the seven gods, it made me think of the seven deities of the Bloodrose line of the Feri tradition, so I was intrigued. Except for the maiden/mother/crone thing, the Game of Thrones deities are quite different, but still interesting.

Riothamus12

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2013, 03:43:20 am »
Quote from: Carnelian;116545
Oh ok, thanks.

Back when the show first started, someone who knew I was interested in religion recommended it to me because of the religious aspects of the story, which are pretty interesting, I have to admit. When he was telling me about the seven gods, it made me think of the seven deities of the Bloodrose line of the Feri tradition, so I was intrigued. Except for the maiden/mother/crone thing, the Game of Thrones deities are quite different, but still interesting.

 
Yes. Except the androgynous deity is not the supreme one. Though it does deal in the same double trinity and uses the seven pointed star as an emblem. Though the faith of the seven is more of a Pagan-Catholicism mix with less emphasis on ecstasy.
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LadyLabcoat

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2013, 12:59:33 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;116220
While not technically real pagan religions, I'm interested in the religious themes that appear in the show and the books, although they don't really go too deeply into religion in the show. I'm only part of the way through the first book, so I haven't come across explicit explanations of the religions of the characters, except vaguely when a character mentions praying to "the seven faces of god" or something along those lines.

From what I've read online, the main religion practiced in the series is the Faith of the Seven, which involves the worship of seven deities who appear to be facets of one ultimate godhead. They include the Maiden, Mother, and Crone, a triad quite familiar to modern pagans, as well as the Father, Smith, and Warrior on the male side, and the genderless god called the Stranger, who represents mystery and death. Temples of the Seven are called "septs" (from the Latin word for "seven"), and priests are called septons and priestesses septas.

The Old Gods worshiped in the north are nameless deities, and this faith has more in common with animism than organized polytheism and the worship of specific, named gods. Trees called "Weirwood trees" are religious symbols, and there are no temples for organized worship.

There are also the Red God/Lord of Light, who seems a little sinister in the show, judging by the woman who follows him. From what I've read, this religion is more ecstatic and involves prophecy. There is also the Drowned God, worshiped as a local deity on the Iron Islands, which we haven't seen much of yet in the show.

Anyway, I thought this was interesting, and clearly there is a lot of pagan influence in these fictional religious traditions, and elements relevant to a discussion of pagan religions.


A Wiki of Ice and Fire is a great resource for this (but beware spoilers GALORE). I find that the religions he writes about, and they way they're portrayed, are quite easy to follow. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in a few years we have people identifying with them (maybe with modified histories that may or may not include such fictional characters as Baelor the Blessed). It could easily become a fictional religion-turned-real like Jediism. And the Dothraki language in the series is an almost complete constructed language, so people could be spouting Dothraki and High Valyrian insults at each other like some of us do in Black Speech or Klingon.

I also think it's interesting that whatever 'miracles' may have been performed by praying to Heart Trees or praying to the Seven seem to be subtle and could be explained away as happen-stance or luck, but the only miracles that are actually seen for sure are the ones done through R'hllor, either by Melisandre or Thoros of Myr. Even Mirri Maz Duur and the remaining Dothraki and Ser Jorah tell us about what happened to Rhaego, but we don't see it on camera (as it were). So, it could be, in Essos and Westeros anyway, that the Fire God is the One True God after all...

Abduzza

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2013, 01:58:18 pm »
Quote from: LadyLabcoat;119800
A Wiki of Ice and Fire is a great resource for this (but beware spoilers GALORE). I find that the religions he writes about, and they way they're portrayed, are quite easy to follow. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in a few years we have people identifying with them (maybe with modified histories that may or may not include such fictional characters as Baelor the Blessed). It could easily become a fictional religion-turned-real like Jediism.


As a big fan of the series, I could see this happening too. The religions are clearly based on real world faiths to one extent or another and so someone could make the argument that they are just using a new interpretation of the old faiths. Maybe the faith of the seven could be fleshed out as a new form of Monotheism. Or the Old Gods as an animistic faith?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea actually... :dwink:

LadyLabcoat

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2013, 02:38:16 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;119939
As a big fan of the series, I could see this happening too. The religions are clearly based on real world faiths to one extent or another and so someone could make the argument that they are just using a new interpretation of the old faiths. Maybe the faith of the seven could be fleshed out as a new form of Monotheism. Or the Old Gods as an animistic faith?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea actually... :dwink:


Lol, we should totally start a hypothetical study group for exploring one of them. We should make this happen :-p

Riothamus12

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2013, 09:37:13 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;119939
As a big fan of the series, I could see this happening too. The religions are clearly based on real world faiths to one extent or another and so someone could make the argument that they are just using a new interpretation of the old faiths. Maybe the faith of the seven could be fleshed out as a new form of Monotheism. Or the Old Gods as an animistic faith?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea actually... :dwink:

 
While I will admit the elements thereof would make a fine a religion in the real world I would avoid making any direct associations if you want to be taken seriously.
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Juni

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2013, 09:55:27 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;119970
While I will admit the elements thereof would make a fine a religion in the real world I would avoid making any direct associations if you want to be taken seriously.

 
I think that rather depends on whom one would like to be taken seriously by. I place little stock in the opinions of the needlessly judgmental, myself.
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LadyLabcoat

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2013, 10:00:08 pm »
Quote from: Juni;119972
I think that rather depends on whom one would like to be taken seriously by. I place little stock in the opinions of the needlessly judgmental, myself.

 
Well, I don't see why not. Jediism and Dudeism are taken seriously. Legally, at least, if not socially. They are both fictional religions that have resonated with enough people to be made into official religions.

Jack

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2013, 10:01:20 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;119970
While I will admit the elements thereof would make a fine a religion in the real world I would avoid making any direct associations if you want to be taken seriously.

 
I don't make a habit of practicing religions I'm ashamed of.
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Riothamus12

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2013, 01:35:23 am »
Quote from: LadyLabcoat;119973
Well, I don't see why not. Jediism and Dudeism are taken seriously. Legally, at least, if not socially. They are both fictional religions that have resonated with enough people to be made into official religions.

 
I don't know what Dudeism is but  the name itself rubs me the wrong way. I think you can already guess that my feelings about Jediism. Certain pieces of pop culture are useful for giving one a new perspective on things but...You already know the gist of what I'm about to say I take it.
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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2013, 01:40:48 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;119987
I think you can already guess that my feelings about Jediism.


Too ecclectic for ya?
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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2013, 01:54:19 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;119987
I don't know what Dudeism is but  the name itself rubs me the wrong way. I think you can already guess that my feelings about Jediism. Certain pieces of pop culture are useful for giving one a new perspective on things but...You already know the gist of what I'm about to say I take it.

 
The substance of the World is only a name for what Abides.
The tumbling of tumbleweeds is all that exists and may exist;
The rug is only a fabrication which ties the room together.
One experiences without being uptight, or enters a World of Pain,
And investigates complicated cases in order to understand the World.

-from the Dude de Ching

Sounds like solid advice to me.
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Jack

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2013, 01:55:15 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;119988
Too ecclectic for ya?

 
Fucking midichlorian schism, man.
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stephyjh

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Re: Religion in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2013, 02:06:40 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;119987
I don't know what Dudeism is but  the name itself rubs me the wrong way. I think you can already guess that my feelings about Jediism. Certain pieces of pop culture are useful for giving one a new perspective on things but...You already know the gist of what I'm about to say I take it.


Knowing you're going to say it doesn't make your criticism of other people's religious practice valid. I mean, you know they're not literally trying to move objects using the Force, so who are you to tell them what symbols and what metaphors are allowed to work for them?
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That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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