collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Reality VS Superstitions  (Read 4771 times)

Fier

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Michigan
  • Posts: 820
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 7
  • Daughter of the Cosmos
    • View Profile
  • Religion: FlameKeeping
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 08:53:59 pm »
Quote from: Marukai;92189
So what entities can we really confirm to be real? ...Angels, I'm not sure, because they stem exclusively from Abrahamic monotheistic religions.

 
Wait! I thought you said you were an Angel. Are you saying you don't exist?! :confused:

Sage

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 2186
  • Total likes: 4
    • View Profile
    • http://sageandstarshine.wordpress.com
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 09:00:53 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;92207
Wait! I thought you said you were an Angel. Are you saying you don't exist?! :confused:

 
Wrong board member.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3168
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
    • View Profile
    • Jack of Many Trades
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2013, 09:04:17 pm »
Quote from: Marukai;92202
Has Lilith ever been attributed to supernatural sleep paralysis?


No, but supernatural sleep paralysis has been attributed to her. It's fairly common to see her come up in the context of Old Hag Syndrome.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Fier

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Michigan
  • Posts: 820
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 7
  • Daughter of the Cosmos
    • View Profile
  • Religion: FlameKeeping
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2013, 09:04:35 pm »
Quote from: Sage;92210
Wrong board member.

 
Whoops! My mistake!

Fireof9

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 937
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2013, 09:05:46 pm »
Quote from: Marukai;92202
True, but has Lilith ever manifested as a mist or a sort of apparition that Jinns and Faeries manifest as? Has Lilith ever been attributed to supernatural sleep paralysis?

 
1. Does she need to in order to be real?

2. Can you say that she hasn't?

3. Do you know for a fact that any of the deity talked about on these forums have done either?

4. If they have not done those two things does that mean they do not exist?
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3168
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
    • View Profile
    • Jack of Many Trades
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2013, 09:09:10 pm »
Quote from: Marukai;92204
The invocations that I do are not anything out of the book. The book is full of holes. It is so distorted because the Grimoire was in Ancient Hebrew. I Invoke through deep thought to the point of nothing is in existence except myself. When I get to this state I can somehow call a Demon from this Grimoire. I want to try this with Astaroth or Paimon, but I am very scared because these are both very... powerful Demons. I have Invoked Bure only, but his communication is very weak. I think it is because the Sun is not in Sagittarius. When the Sun enters Sagittarius the Grimoire states that this is the time that this Demon is most powerful. I did at one point bring up Asmodeus in my thoughts and felt terrified because I did get an answer back in a roaring voice this was back in November when this Demon King is the most powerful.


So you only believe in things in the grimoires, but you mention yourself the grimoires are full of holes.

Just FYI, the Greater Key was never in "ancient Hebrew," it was most likely written in Italian and translated into Hebrew in the 1700s or later.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Juniper

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 160
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2013, 09:11:12 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;92175
The story you referenced is neither in the Bible nor in the Dead Sea Scrolls.  It's midrash and the mediaeval "Alphabet of Ben Sira."  The only explicit "Lilith" reference in the Bible tells none of this story, and is in the book of Isaiah.


This is a little off-topic I'll admit, but I just love Rossetti's poem about Lilith. The words roll right off your tongue and it gives me chills whenever I read it.


http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Lilith/rossetti_poems.html
"I\'ve seen fake gods, and bad gods, and demigods and would-be gods; out of all that, out of that whole pantheon,
 if I believe in one thing... just one thing... I believe in her."

~David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor

Marukai

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 271
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2013, 10:10:51 pm »
Quote from: Jack;92216
So you only believe in things in the grimoires, but you mention yourself the grimoires are full of holes.

Just FYI, the Greater Key was never in "ancient Hebrew," it was most likely written in Italian and translated into Hebrew in the 1700s or later.

Italian? Huh? Most Grimoires from that period of time were written in either Latin or some other dead language. Italian came after Latin

Marukai

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 271
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 10:12:54 pm »
Quote from: Fireof9;92214
1. Does she need to in order to be real?

2. Can you say that she hasn't?

3. Do you know for a fact that any of the deity talked about on these forums have done either?

4. If they have not done those two things does that mean they do not exist?

 
I can say she isn't real because my Jinns say she isn't and they're 14k and 26k years old. I have wished for things and have received some things, so I can truly believe in Jinns

Laveth

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 885
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2013, 10:34:48 pm »
Quote from: Marukai;92233
I can say she isn't real because my Jinns say she isn't and they're 14k and 26k years old. I have wished for things and have received some things, so I can truly believe in Jinns

 
What do you say to those in this forum who feel that Lilith is a true entity in her own right then?

Quote
Marukai

    Re: Reality VS Superstitions
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    So you only believe in things in the grimoires, but you mention yourself the grimoires are full of holes.

    Just FYI, the Greater Key was never in "ancient Hebrew," it was most likely written in Italian and translated into Hebrew in the 1700s or later.
    Italian? Huh? Most Grimoires from that period of time were written in either Latin or some other dead language. Italian came after Latin


Your Grimoire was written in the 1700's or so, yes? Every source I've ever looked at (which, I'll admit, may not be all encompassing) states that Latin ceased being spoken in the 4th century and stopped being used as the formal writing system in the 1300's. There's a 400 year gap in there to explain where the latin comes from? Maybe I'm interpreting that incorrectly?

I like the discussions in this forum, but some of the things I'm reading just set off a lot of red flags and I would really really love to see some credible resources linked that don't include wikipedia or "the Grimoires."

Snowdrop

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 416
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2013, 10:53:47 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;92236
I like the discussions in this forum, but some of the things I'm reading just set off a lot of red flags and I would really really love to see some credible resources linked that don't include wikipedia or "the Grimoires."


How do you feel about spooky Youtube videos?

Laveth

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 885
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 10:55:02 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;92239
How do you feel about spooky Youtube videos?

 
If they don't have that "stare at the random lake until a flash screen with a zombie or your momma pops out at you screaming" thing, then it's all good. :p

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 754
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2013, 11:02:27 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;92236

Your Grimoire was written in the 1700's or so, yes? Every source I've ever looked at (which, I'll admit, may not be all encompassing) states that Latin ceased being spoken in the 4th century and stopped being used as the formal writing system in the 1300's. There's a 400 year gap in there to explain where the latin comes from? Maybe I'm interpreting that incorrectly?


Just to clarify here without digging into the topic of the thread:

Latin was the language of academia for a *very very long time* - so much so that a number of modern college diplomas are written in it, several universities still have a Latin speech as part of formal academic festivities like commencement. (Still true at Harvard, where I took a summer of Latin in the late 90s, and we talked about this: my prof coached for that.)

The shift to the vernacular (aka: "language that everyone else was speaking" varies a lot: you start seeing a pretty reliable shift around the Protestant Reformation (the 1600s, give or take a century), but you still see lots of stuff coming out in Latin because it was a language that basically ever educated person read - so it was the universal language of academia, because you didn't necessarily all know English or French or German or Italian, or whatever, but you all had Latin in common.

(Both my parents had stories of travelling in their teens - this'd be in the early 50s in Europe - and being able to talk to peers in Latin, because it was still the one language everyone on more or less a university-track education learned: I note they grew up in Wales and England, and both also spoke French and German)

I note that the unity of Italy as a country is amazingly recent: until then, you had a bunch of different regional dialects, and speaking 'Italian' is misleading for a long time - there were attempts at standardisation as early as 1600, but well into the 1800s, very few people actually spoke it. German as a language is not quite as bad, but there's still some very substantial regional differences.

A quick look at the background of the Key of Solomon suggests there are multiple translations floating around, and that it's not entirely clear what the original source text was in: there are copies in Latin, an early Italian dialect, Greek, and Hebrew.

(It's also worth noting here that Greek as a language pretty much dropped out of Western thought between the fall of Byzantium and the Italian Renaissance - roughly 1450 - and especially the Neo-Platonist philosophers and magicians: Marsilio Ficino, Pico della Mirandola, and others in that circle did a lot to produce translations and commentary. (Ficino was principally writing in Latin, to give you another touchstone.))
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Laveth

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 885
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2013, 11:12:06 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;92244
Just to clarify here without digging into the topic of the thread:

Latin was the language of academia for a *very very long time* - so much so that a number of modern college diplomas are written in it, several universities still have a Latin speech as part of formal academic festivities like commencement. (Still true at Harvard, where I took a summer of Latin in the late 90s, and we talked about this: my prof coached for that.)

The shift to the vernacular (aka: "language that everyone else was speaking" varies a lot: you start seeing a pretty reliable shift around the Protestant Reformation (the 1600s, give or take a century), but you still see lots of stuff coming out in Latin because it was a language that basically ever educated person read - so it was the universal language of academia, because you didn't necessarily all know English or French or German or Italian, or whatever, but you all had Latin in common.

(Both my parents had stories of travelling in their teens - this'd be in the early 50s in Europe - and being able to talk to peers in Latin, because it was still the one language everyone on more or less a university-track education learned: I note they grew up in Wales and England, and both also spoke French and German)

I note that the unity of Italy as a country is amazingly recent: until then, you had a bunch of different regional dialects, and speaking 'Italian' is misleading for a long time - there were attempts at standardisation as early as 1600, but well into the 1800s, very few people actually spoke it. German as a language is not quite as bad, but there's still some very substantial regional differences.

A quick look at the background of the Key of Solomon suggests there are multiple translations floating around, and that it's not entirely clear what the original source text was in: there are copies in Latin, an early Italian dialect, Greek, and Hebrew.

(It's also worth noting here that Greek as a language pretty much dropped out of Western thought between the fall of Byzantium and the Italian Renaissance - roughly 1450 - and especially the Neo-Platonist philosophers and magicians: Marsilio Ficino, Pico della Mirandola, and others in that circle did a lot to produce translations and commentary. (Ficino was principally writing in Latin, to give you another touchstone.))

 
Thanks for that! Learn something new every day. ^^

Marukai

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 271
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Reality VS Superstitions
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2013, 11:36:02 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;92236
What do you say to those in this forum who feel that Lilith is a true entity in her own right then?



Your Grimoire was written in the 1700's or so, yes? Every source I've ever looked at (which, I'll admit, may not be all encompassing) states that Latin ceased being spoken in the 4th century and stopped being used as the formal writing system in the 1300's. There's a 400 year gap in there to explain where the latin comes from? Maybe I'm interpreting that incorrectly?

I like the discussions in this forum, but some of the things I'm reading just set off a lot of red flags and I would really really love to see some credible resources linked that don't include wikipedia or "the Grimoires."


I don't judge peoples beliefs. I'm just trying to establish what is Superstitious or I should have said Fictitious in place of Superstitious. There is a bit of a conflict with what you're saying about Latin. Johann Weyer's Pseudomonarchia Daemonum is a 16th century Grimoire that is entirely in Latin.

http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/weyer.htm

Then I look at The Dictonnaire Infernal by  Jacques Auguste Simon Collin de Plancy, which was published in the 18th century in Latin. The Dictonnaire Infernal is not a Grimoire per se, but rather a compilation of Evil Spirits or loosely termed Demons. So what gives:confused::confused:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:36:47 pm by Marukai »

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
935 Views
Last post June 28, 2012, 08:33:18 am
by RandallS
29 Replies
7211 Views
Last post March 03, 2013, 04:33:28 pm
by mandrina
8 Replies
1279 Views
Last post March 26, 2013, 05:05:19 pm
by darkwhispersdale
40 Replies
7689 Views
Last post January 18, 2016, 01:29:38 pm
by Gaudior
9 Replies
3163 Views
Last post January 24, 2019, 12:21:41 am
by ehbowen

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 33
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall