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Author Topic: Pop Culture Paganism  (Read 12380 times)

Jack

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2013, 01:58:48 am »
Quote from: wadjet;109243
That's an extremely personal question and slightly rude, besides being irrelevant to the topic. Questioning my accomplishments, or pointing out my emotional vulnerabilities, seriously?


I responded only because you brought it up in the context of the thread, suggesting that your dissatisfaction was related to the topic at hand. I didn't mean to question your accomplishments or vulnerabilities, and I apologize for upsetting you.
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Darkhawk

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2013, 08:45:10 am »
Quote from: wadjet;109242
(Why can't everyone else have differing opinions without fallout??)

 
Generally speaking, when the opening salvo in expressing those opinions includes "Are you really a ?", suggesting that someone's practice was equivalent to dishonoring the dead, and/or characterising someone else's practices as "make believe" and "pretend time", there is going to be fallout.

Much like when someone opens a conversation by punching someone else in the face, the resulting exchanges don't go well.
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Snowdrop

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2013, 05:13:44 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;109233
I'm just going to leave this link right here:

http://krasskova.weebly.com/1/category/columbia/1.html

 
But she has PIETY!!!  

(Okay, I confess.  I deeply appreciate all the work she's done getting lesser-known gods' names out there, talking about alternate forms of Germanic paganism (and putting up with all the abuse she gets for it), but all of her NO ONE IS PIOUS ENOUGH OH NOES posts are starting to get to me in a really bad way.)

Lokabrenna

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2013, 05:33:39 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;109311
But she has PIETY!!!  

(Okay, I confess.  I deeply appreciate all the work she's done getting lesser-known gods' names out there, talking about alternate forms of Germanic paganism (and putting up with all the abuse she gets for it), but all of her NO ONE IS PIOUS ENOUGH OH NOES posts are starting to get to me in a really bad way.)


I have the exact same feels, the exact same feels.

wadjet

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2013, 11:46:28 pm »
Quote from: Jack;109244
I responded only because you brought it up in the context of the thread, suggesting that your dissatisfaction was related to the topic at hand. I didn't mean to question your accomplishments or vulnerabilities, and I apologize for upsetting you.

 
I thank you for the apology and offer my own: it's certainly a possibility that I misread the tone. :)

Quote from: Darkhawk;109264
Much like when someone opens a conversation by punching someone else in the face, the resulting exchanges don't go well.

Yes, it was probably not worded well at the very start. I don't get why, if a person didn't understand fictional-god-worship, didn't they just ASK? Insulting to just assume that the PCP must be clearly a shallow idiot who never considered the nature of their beliefs.

Jack

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2013, 02:32:10 am »
Quote from: wadjet;109361
Yes, it was probably not worded well at the very start. I don't get why, if a person didn't understand fictional-god-worship, didn't they just ASK? Insulting to just assume that the PCP must be clearly a shallow idiot who never considered the nature of their beliefs.

 
Because bitching is better linkbait, and more fun, presumably. XD
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SunflowerP

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2013, 04:03:25 am »
Quote from: wadjet;109225
The second argument, which I think is more legit, is the same one folks have against fluffy bunnies - when you get a lot of them together, they get loud, and they start to direct the flow of things. It is just not true to say "my worship doesn't effect you", because it is not being kept personal, it's being brought into the public group circle.

 
Y'know, this may be a big part of why I'm so unfazed by pop-culture paganism: I feel like this about huge swaths of Greater Pagandom, and have for years (it's why, in the 'What Kind of Witch Are You?' thread, I kept thinking, and eventually posted, that I was a grumpy witch). Pagans are constantly getting together in bunches, becoming loud, and affecting the flow of things - I'm less annoyed by the ones who are loud about their own practices than by the ones who are loud in policing others' practices; and less threatened by the 'fad of the moment' ones, many of whom will have gone on to the next big fad in a year or three, than I am by those who are very serious, earnest, and committed about directing paganism in the direction they think it ought to go.

(I'm reminded of a thread we had here on TC many years ago - it must have been when we were using the Beehive software, since I can't find any trace of it in the archive forum, so before Mar '07 - about, 'You Know You're a Bad Pagan when...,' in which people posted anecdotes about being scolded for not fitting the scolder's ideals of what all pagans and their practices should be like. It was a long thread, and very entertaining. Perhaps I should try reviving it.)

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Darkhawk

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2013, 09:14:59 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;109374
(I'm reminded of a thread we had here on TC many years ago - it must have been when we were using the Beehive software, since I can't find any trace of it in the archive forum, so before Mar '07 - about, 'You Know You're a Bad Pagan when...,' in which people posted anecdotes about being scolded for not fitting the scolder's ideals of what all pagans and their practices should be like. It was a long thread, and very entertaining. Perhaps I should try reviving it.)

 
Unfortunately, the compilation link in http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=2275.0 seems to be down now, and Wayback does not have it, alas.
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Morag

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2013, 04:30:52 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;109003
Is it okay to worship/work with pop culture figures as deities/spirits in their own right?

 
I see nothing wrong with paying heed to Her Holy Badass Sexiness Professor River Song and Her Consort, the Madman in a Bowtie (Bowties are Cool).

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Darkhawk

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2013, 04:31:57 pm »
Quote from: Morag;109461
In the name of the Scot, the Roman, and the Holy TARDIS. GERONIMOOOOOOOO

 
Ace!
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Fausta

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2013, 06:06:39 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;109374
(I'm reminded of a thread we had here on TC many years ago - it must have been when we were using the Beehive software, since I can't find any trace of it in the archive forum, so before Mar '07 - about, 'You Know You're a Bad Pagan when...,' in which people posted anecdotes about being scolded for not fitting the scolder's ideals of what all pagans and their practices should be like. It was a long thread, and very entertaining. Perhaps I should try reviving it.)


Please do revive it!

wadjet

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2013, 08:39:16 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;109374
Y'know, this may be a big part of why I'm so unfazed by pop-culture paganism: I feel like this about huge swaths of Greater Pagandom, and have for years....

...and less threatened by the 'fad of the moment' ones, many of whom will have gone on to the next big fad in a year or three, than I am by those who are very serious, earnest, and committed about directing paganism in the direction they think it ought to go.

 This is an excellent point. That may be part of why it still irks me - most of time exploring paganism has been quite literally solitary, and I've only recently reached out to groups. So I'm probably just not used to it (quickly growing cynical).

But it's true that every couple of months there is some new Drama. Some of it is important, a lot of it isn't...but the idea of a well-known and well-respected pagan, arguably someone in a position of authority, who brings something controversial to the table, well, that's more of an issue and could be cause for concern.

(Actually, this is probably one of the big reasons non-recon Norse paganism has flourished in recent times: the very vocal anti-UPG folks failed to detract from it, because the genuine leaders kind of just shrugged and said "who am I to quibble?")

Altair

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2013, 11:44:30 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;109003


 Is it okay to worship/work with pop culture figures as deities/spirits in their own right?


I've only read the first link (none of the others yet)--reading the thread all the way through took long enough!--but I'll say this, and get myself into a whole heap of trouble:

From Herakles to X-Men, it's all just fiction.

Some storyteller, sometime, somewhere, made it up for the first time, and then it got picked up and carried on by others. What makes it real--what makes it matter--is what we bring to it. What place does this story occupy in our lives? Do the insights gained from this story form the core principles through which we interpret our world? If yes, then it doesn't matter what the pedigree of the story is--whether it was first told 5,000 years ago, or invented by Stan Lee 50 years ago.

You can argue that the older stories might have more claim to legitimacy because they've stood the test of time, but that's about it. (I wouldn't consider historical figures like MLK in the same breath; they are deficient as archetypes specifically because they lived and breathed.)

I worked as a writer and editor for Marvel Comics for several years, and I have long felt that the superhero genre was the last bastion of mythmaking left in Western culture. I don't see superheroes as gods or spirits, but I see where they address that human need for a larger-than-life dramatization of the Big Issues. Certain superheroes manifest archetypes that resonate with me deeply enough that I've even used them as icons on the altar.

On the other hand, in the past on this very forum I have openly mocked the worshippers of Mothra (yes, the giant lepidopteran of Godzilla movie fame). I guess I just couldn't see how anyone could build their worldview around her. Still can't.
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wadjet

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2013, 04:13:44 am »
Quote from: Altair;109773

 


 
Did a bit of brush-up reading the past couple of days, and I'd decided to amend my previous statements:

While I think that my concern that the recent "fad" of "worship" of pop culture deities is a reflection of consumerism and is disingenuous, anyone in the Pagan community who thinks the worship of fictional deities is somehow new, novel, never-contested, or "fluffy", needs to get acquainted with the origins and history of the Neo-Pagan movement.

Rhyshadow

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Re: Pop Culture Paganism
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2013, 06:30:41 am »
Quote from: wadjet;109777
Did a bit of brush-up reading the past couple of days, and I'd decided to amend my previous statements:

While I think that my concern that the recent "fad" of "worship" of pop culture deities is a reflection of consumerism and is disingenuous, anyone in the Pagan community who thinks the worship of fictional deities is somehow new, novel, never-contested, or "fluffy", needs to get acquainted with the origins and history of the Neo-Pagan movement.

 
Especially the origins of 'The Church of All Worlds', one of the more respected Pagan groups out there. ;)

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