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Author Topic: Norse Pagans/Norsemen - please help. Remarriage after murder of a spouse  (Read 2402 times)

occamsrazor

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I believe Norsemen are the same thing; if I am mistaken, I apologize. I've heard the religion called different things, and mostly that those who follow it are Norsemen. So, I am seeking answers from Norsemen.

Among other complications, my former fiance has amnesia and has gone back to when his late wife first passed in his mind (time-wise). Prior to suffering his head trauma, we were ready to get married, start a family, and start our life together.

His late wife was raped then murdered. Now he says that he cannot take another wife until the offender is dead according to his religion. He did go after him right after the incident occurred, but the police got to him first. The offender is in prison. This is causing him great trouble, guilt, and anguish. He does not think he can be with me because there is no way to rid the world of the offender. As these beliefs and rules were written centuries ago, you could go after someone who has committed such crimes and indeed make sure they were in the ground with no consequence. With modern society's rules, the proper proceedings were followed, and the murderer is in jail.


It is my understanding that because of the huge geographical spread of the Norse religion, while most traditions and basic beliefs were in place, individual populations would be responsible for deciding how to handle crimes. I am also not positive about this - I have done as much research as the internet would allow. He grew up learning that if his wife was raped or murdered then he cannot remarry until the attacker is dead. Given that this would result in an impossible situation, considering the offender is in prison and if he were to find a way to kill him, my fiance would then be in prison instead, what is the view on this now? Are there rituals or steps to be taken? Do we need to go see a religious expert for clearance? He has gotten himself a Bible, which greatly surprised me, and I don't know what he's looking for in it. Perhaps he could not find any texts about Norse Paganism and therefore went searching elsewhere. I don't know the thoughts on this either or how much it counts toward our situation.

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

occamsrazor

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« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 05:35:50 pm by SunflowerP »

Redfaery

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Quote from: occamsrazor;174840
Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 
First off, I am truly sorry for his loss, and for the situation you yourself are in.

Secondly, he is wrong to do this to you. Very, very wrong. And he should not use his religion as an excuse. He is hurting you. Because you are right. If he DID kill the person who murdered his wife, he would go to prison for the rest of his life. And he is not thinking about what that would mean for his relationship with you.. My advice based on what you've said is that he needs professional help.
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occamsrazor

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thank you for the kind words. he is getting help, therapists and neurologists, a whole team of people. i think he's punishing himself (and me) by insisting that this is what he has to go through. he's always felt guilty about not being home to protect her when she was attacked. i will keep trying to talk to him and maybe direct him here. i just want him to find peace and then hopefully happiness again with me

Juniperberry

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Quote from: occamsrazor;174864
thank you for the kind words. he is getting help, therapists and neurologists, a whole team of people. i think he's punishing himself (and me) by insisting that this is what he has to go through. he's always felt guilty about not being home to protect her when she was attacked. i will keep trying to talk to him and maybe direct him here. i just want him to find peace and then hopefully happiness again with me


Germanic pagans had a type of court system to judge offenders and disputes. Oftentimes a murdered would be outlawed, which in modern times would correlate to imprisonment. Secondly, the murderer would often be ordered to pay gold to the surviving family.

I'm just throwing this out there, with no legal expertise whatsoever, but maybe your fiancé could file his own civil suit against the offender? It probably wouldn't be very practical financially, but it might give him a focus for his pain and a sense of active purpose?

That's my modern heathen interpretation of things from a religious standpoint, but I also agree with RedFaery. Its a crappy situation without any easy answers. Hope things work out for you both.
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NightQueen

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Quote from: occamsrazor;174840
I believe Norsemen are the same thing; if I am mistaken, I apologize. I've heard the religion called different things, and mostly that those who follow it are Norsemen. So, I am seeking answers from Norsemen.

I fully admit that I don't know anything besides what I was told by my former fiance (the story and why I need the answer to this is below).

Among other complications, my former fiance has amnesia and has gone back to when his late wife first passed in his mind (time-wise). Prior to suffering his head trauma, we were ready to get married, start a family, and start our life together.

His late wife was raped then murdered. Now he says that he cannot take another wife until the offender is dead according to his religion. He did go after him right after the incident occurred, but the police got to him first. The offender is in prison. This is causing him great trouble, guilt, and anguish. He does not think he can be with me because there is no way to rid the world of the offender. As these beliefs and rules were written centuries ago, you could go after someone who has committed such crimes and indeed make sure they were in the ground with no consequence. With modern society's rules, the proper proceedings were followed, and the murderer is in jail.


It is my understanding that because of the huge geographical spread of the Norse religion, while most traditions and basic beliefs were in place, individual populations would be responsible for deciding how to handle crimes. I am also not positive about this - I have done as much research as the internet would allow. He grew up learning that if his wife was raped or murdered then he cannot remarry until the attacker is dead. Given that this would result in an impossible situation, considering the offender is in prison and if he were to find a way to kill him, my fiance would then be in prison instead, what is the view on this now? Are there rituals or steps to be taken? Do we need to go see a religious expert for clearance? He has gotten himself a Bible, which greatly surprised me, and I don't know what he's looking for in it. Perhaps he could not find any texts about Norse Paganism and therefore went searching elsewhere. I don't know the thoughts on this either or how much it counts toward our situation. It was to my understanding that solitary interpretations and believing was allowed, which would make all of this easier to handle. Please let me know if that is correct and if not, what the next best thing to do for him and us would be.

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


I'm not particularly familiar with Asatru or Heathenism, but I'm pretty sure their practitioners generally don't go around breaking the law, so I would say his insistence that he needs to kill the man who killed his wife doesn't really have anything to do with his religion.  I have a feeling that it has more to do with his head trauma.  I've seen people with head trauma suffer from massive personality shifts, impulse control problems, delusions, and a whole host of other issues.

I am very sorry both you an he are in the situation, one thing to keep in mind is that he may not be fully in control of his behavior, it doesn't change that it might be hurtful, but it might be helpful to know his intention probably isn't to hurt you.  You mentioned that he is being treated by a therapist, perhaps you should see one yourself.  Traumatic brain injuries are devastating to the whole family not just the person to whom it occurred.  You will also may have to come to terms with the fact that his personality changes may be permanent and that he may never be the man you knew again.  Therapy may help with that also.

Jainarayan

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Quote from: Juniperberry;174865
Germanic pagans had a type of court system to judge offenders and disputes. Oftentimes a murdered would be outlawed, which in modern times would correlate to imprisonment. Secondly, the murderer would often be ordered to pay gold to the surviving family.

Yes, what Juniperberry said.

Utlagr, 'outlaw' meaning outside the law. Which is exactly where we get our word outlaw from. The outlaw was fair game for anyone to kill for any reason because he did not have the protection of the laws. We don't have that system anymore. Now it would be vigilantism. It had nothing to do with religion, but rather, cultural custom.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 01:18:46 pm by Jainarayan »

Hyacinth Belle

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Quote from: occamsrazor;174839
He grew up learning that if his wife was raped or murdered then he cannot remarry until the attacker is dead.

I'm so sorry this happened and that both of you are facing this situation. I can't imagine.

Honestly though, this seems like way more than a religious issue. A couple things:

- "Norsemen" isn't exactly a common term. Your post is the first thing I've seen that seems to use it as a serious title. Asatru and Heathenry are more common. Asatru refers to a specific religion, whereas Heathen is a broader term. There are others too, which you can read about around this forum. "Norse pagans" is slightly more common, but even then it has certain connotations that make it unlikely to be used by an Asatruar.

- You say he was raised from a child as a Norse pagan? Not saying it's impossible, but that is seriously surprising.

- People from Scandinavian or Germanic cultures a thousand years ago did not have the same perspective of rape as we do today.

- It's true there were revenge killings in the cultures that modern reconstructionist religions like Asatru take as inspiration (maybe someone else can help me citing this though). However, the thought that someone would actually want to live by this in today's world would not be viewed as acceptable. We live in the world today, not centuries go. Things have changed, and for the better.

Not sure if this response is what you were looking for, but I hope that helps in some way.
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Hyacinth Belle

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Quote from: occamsrazor;174839
Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 
And I see you've double posted this thread. For future reference, this is frowned upon here at TC. One post, in the most appropriate forum, is plenty.
"Silent and thoughtful a prince\'s son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15

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Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;174887
And I see you've double posted this thread. For future reference, this is frowned upon here at TC. One post, in the most appropriate forum, is plenty.

 
A Reminder:
Hi, occamsrazor,

I'm backing up what Hyacinth Belle says here (in the duplicate thread that was in the Asatru & Heathenry SIG, where she is SIG Leader and authorized to moderate). In fact, it's more than just 'frowned upon', it's a http://ecauldron.com/forum/misc.php?do=vsarulesrules violation, in the 'Don't be annoying' section, which is quite serious - though generally we treat isolated instances as innocent errors, and delete one of the duplicate threads, or (as I've done in this case) merge the threads. In future, don't post multiple iterations of a question in more than one forum; it will not get you more or better answers, it will just annoy all the people who have to read it twice.

While I am being staffy....


Quote from: occamsrazor;174864



A Reminder:
Just a quick note:  Please remember to quote, even if you're just  replying to the first message in the thread.  It makes the discussion  easier to follow, and it's required by  our  rules. (If you're using tapatalk on a phone, please hold your finger down on the message you wish to reply to until the quote function pops up.)

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
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