collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham  (Read 5923 times)

dragonfaerie

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • *
  • Posts: 431
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 3
  • Priestess of Caffeina
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Wicca & Druidry
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/her
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2015, 01:34:18 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;173290
And particularly in this case, where there was a surface reading that the preferred method in the book was the Only Way, even when the book suggested alternatives if you couldn't do that for some reason.

I've often blamed this on shifting cultural trends in education. Now it's "teach to the test" and "this is what you have to know, this is the right answer they are looking for" coupled with today's "tl;dr" internet culture.

People don't want to make the time to synthesize various books, to take classes, to go through the process of seeking out a coven and years of training. They want the one book that can give it all to them right now in easy-to-read chunks. You can give them a book list and journal questions all you want, but want they really want is The One Truth(tm) and the proper identifying label in 10 syllables or less.

I can't blame authors for that. I don't think I've read any 101 book that purports to be the end-all of Wiccan education.

Karen

Sefiru

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 1779
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 384
    • View Profile
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2015, 06:54:44 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;173290

Those conversations are about practices on the surface, but underneath was a really big strand (and sometimes you could tease this out) of "I believe that if I don't do what's in the book, I am Doing It All Wrong and All Hope Is Lost." or "I believe that Doing What Is In The Book Is The Only Thing That Will Make My Life Better." Both of which are decidedly beliefs. Sometimes it was "I believe what This Author says about things much more than I do anyone else."

And particularly in this case, where there was a surface reading that the preferred method in the book was the Only Way, even when the book suggested alternatives if you couldn't do that for some reason. That's belief in there, not just practice, even if it's hard to pin down what the exact belief is.

 
You know, this kind of sounds like Sola Scriptura applied to Witchcraft-101 books. It makes me wonder what religious traditions the people you describe were coming from.

Yei

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 547
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 135
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Mexica Reconstructionism
  • Preferred Pronouns: He/Him/His
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 08:08:54 pm »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;173311
I've often blamed this on shifting cultural trends in education. Now it's "teach to the test" and "this is what you have to know, this is the right answer they are looking for" coupled with today's "tl;dr" internet culture.

People don't want to make the time to synthesize various books, to take classes, to go through the process of seeking out a coven and years of training. They want the one book that can give it all to them right now in easy-to-read chunks. You can give them a book list and journal questions all you want, but want they really want is The One Truth(tm) and the proper identifying label in 10 syllables or less.

I can't blame authors for that. I don't think I've read any 101 book that purports to be the end-all of Wiccan education.

Karen

 
I'm getting the impression from this thread that Neo-Wicca is not especially well liked. Is this a general sentiment or just something felt on this forum?

Or is it something else? Have I misunderstood?

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2454
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 156
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 10:47:08 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;173321
You know, this kind of sounds like Sola Scriptura applied to Witchcraft-101 books. It makes me wonder what religious traditions the people you describe were coming from.


Protestant Christianity, which uses sola scriptura as doctrine; or just about any religion that offers up a sacred text as a One-Book-Solution.  Not really surprising that people coming from those traditions would look for, as dragonfaerie says, one book that 'gives it all to them'.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Allaya

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Location: Out of My Mind
  • Posts: 843
  • Country: no
  • Total likes: 10
    • View Profile
  • Religion: It's Complicated
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 12:33:21 am »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;173311
People don't want to make the time to synthesize various books, to take classes, to go through the process of seeking out a coven and years of training.

 
The barrier to entry for those things is exceptionally high for some people. It's pretty messed up that you're framing it as it being some kind of personal failing or deficiency.
Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.  — Shirley Chisholm
No doubt the truth can be unpleasant, but I am not sure that unpleasantness is the same as the truth.  — Roger Ebert
It is difficult to get a person to understand something when their livelihood depends upon them not understanding it. — Upton Sinclair (adapted)
People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

Louisvillian

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 390
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 49
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Syncretic religio romana/Hellenised Romano-British religion
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 02:22:12 am »
Quote from: Allaya;173328
The barrier to entry for those things is exceptionally high for some people.

Except it's not. These books, or the information in them, are pretty readily available online, at local libraries, or book stores.

dragonfaerie

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • *
  • Posts: 431
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 3
  • Priestess of Caffeina
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Wicca & Druidry
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/her
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 07:10:31 am »
Quote from: Allaya;173328
The barrier to entry for those things is exceptionally high for some people. It's pretty messed up that you're framing it as it being some kind of personal failing or deficiency.
And? Traditional initiatory witchcraft was never meant to be a path for the masses. Orthopraxic spirituality can't be spoonfed. People who want to get there will fight to find a way to make it happen instead of sitting back and waiting for it.

Karen

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10174
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 254
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2015, 07:32:48 am »
Quote from: Allaya;173328
The barrier to entry for those things is exceptionally high for some people. It's pretty messed up that you're framing it as it being some kind of personal failing or deficiency.

Traditional Wicca in general (and BTW even more so) is a priesthood. I don't think it is a personal failure to not be interested in putting in all the time and effort to become a priest and more than it is to not want to put in the time and effort to become a doctor or a college professor.

I think is is a sign of our instant gratification consumer society that many people aren't willing to undergo the basic religious education that many religions used to require of new converts -- even those Christian religions in the US who still do have generally reduced the time and effort required, sometimes greatly.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4849
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 729
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 10:11:27 am »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;173335
And? Traditional initiatory witchcraft was never meant to be a path for the masses. Orthopraxic spirituality can't be spoonfed. People who want to get there will fight to find a way to make it happen instead of sitting back and waiting for it.

 
No, not necessarily, they won't, and it has nothing to do with "sitting back and waiting" or being "spoonfed".

I know it's fairly popular among a lot of traditionally trained witches to say, basically, "Well, if you really wanted it, you would do whatever it takes to get it", but the actual facts are that some people live where there are no practitioners, do not have the contact knowledge required to meet practitioners (it's not like Amber and Jet is broad cultural knowledge), live in places where there may not be people who could train them in their country, where there may not be people who speak their language, have disabilities that limit their ability to do extensive travel, and so on.

I'm training in an initiatory line.  I am training with the only reasonably findable teacher in my entire fucking tradition who has had children and understands the effects that the responsibilities of parenting, what that does to one's magic, and what that means about one's ability to pack up one's life to quest for a teacher.  Who is also, coincidentally, the only teacher in my tradition who has ties to the land that I have spiritual ties to, and that actually matters to me, even if she no longer lives here.

Could I study with a teacher who wasn't these things?  Could I even learn this tradition if my teacher did not exist?  I don't know.  But I'm a mom, with kids, a person with family ties, and a person with disabilities, and I cannot just pack up my life and move to California in search of training.  I might really want this training, I might really need this training - and I do believe I do - but I cannot fucking afford to do that.  Not financially, not honorably, not without abandoning the roots of my Craft.

No matter how good a witch I am I can't just manifest the existence of a teacher whose competences include training me, no matter how well suited I am for a tradition, or how much I want that training.  There exist people whose spirits yearn for a particular thing, who are flatly unable to get it, and when it's a choice between "fighting to find something which may not even exist and which can't be gotten to without destroying one's life" and "carrying on without", a whole lot of them will say "I can't afford to move away from the specialist who knows how to treat my condition" or "To do this I would have to basically abandon my kids" or some other thing.

And that's not a statement about "really want".  I've seen people say things that boil down to, "Well, if you actually really wanted this you'd do what it takes" which might mean abandoning health care, abandoning children or family, losing any financial stability, and so on, and I don't think that's "really want", I think that's being entirely irresponsible.

I'd rather see more responsible, trained witches than irresponsible ones who "really want" enough to do that sort of thing, myself.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Allaya

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Location: Out of My Mind
  • Posts: 843
  • Country: no
  • Total likes: 10
    • View Profile
  • Religion: It's Complicated
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2015, 10:32:26 am »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;173335
And? Traditional initiatory witchcraft was never meant to be a path for the masses. Orthopraxic spirituality can't be spoonfed. People who want to get there will fight to find a way to make it happen instead of sitting back and waiting for it.

Karen

 
So if you can't make those things* happen, you're just sitting back and waiting for them to fall into your lap?

That's some pretty abelist bullshit right there. Not everyone can travel to be with a coven or is even welcomed into one if they make it that far. Same goes for classes. For some people, myself included, knitting together a stack of books into a meaningful line of thought is very difficult.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about initiatory vs. non-initiatory. I'm peeved about the judgement that seems to have passed against people who CAN'T as if they have some choice in the matter. It's stupendously frustrating to be perpetually accused of being lazy when some things just aren't doable.


*specifically "synthesize various books, to take classes, to go through the process of seeking out a coven and years of training."
Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.  — Shirley Chisholm
No doubt the truth can be unpleasant, but I am not sure that unpleasantness is the same as the truth.  — Roger Ebert
It is difficult to get a person to understand something when their livelihood depends upon them not understanding it. — Upton Sinclair (adapted)
People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

dragonfaerie

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • *
  • Posts: 431
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 3
  • Priestess of Caffeina
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Wicca & Druidry
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/her
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 10:35:02 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;173342
I'd rather see more responsible, trained witches than irresponsible ones who "really want" enough to do that sort of thing, myself.

I agree with you, and my last post didn't quite convey everything I wanted to express there, as I was rushing to get dressed.

But the thing is, we all make choices and trade-offs. I live an hour and a half drive from my coven. I don't get to ritual every month due to work issues, but I make it when I can. Do I like that? No. But I chose to work with this coven. I chose to buy the house I did. I chose the job with the weekend hours.

Granted, the alternatives to any of those things were not viable, or not what I wanted. But I still chose.

Had I not stumbled on the coven I did, I may have found another. I may have stayed a solitary. I may have left Wicca. Who knows?

But even with formal training, my teacher isn't doing the work for me. There are no scantron tests for initiation. When you choose an initiatory path, you are choosing to make sacrifices.

I think the solution is not to sanitize or pare down initiatory witchcraft for the masses. I think the solution is to create more congregational models in paganism for people who want fellowship and celebration without the hard row to hoe of priest training.

That's valid and valuable, and very much needed, but it's not traditional initiatory witchcraft.

Karen

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4849
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 729
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2015, 10:41:10 am »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;173346
I think the solution is not to sanitize or pare down initiatory witchcraft for the masses. I think the solution is to create more congregational models in paganism for people who want fellowship and celebration without the hard row to hoe of priest training.

 
None of which makes "synthesize various books, to take classes, to go through the process of seeking out a coven and years of training" something that doesn't have a high bar for people.

Some people can't afford books.  Some people who can't afford books don't have access to libraries that would cover Craft books, and given that some of the books I have highly recommended for my training are only findable used for $100 and up I wouldn't expect a library to have them.  Some people live places where the books in the library aren't in their language.  (Such as, I believe, Allaya, who was the one who pointed out that this stuff is not just "wave your hands and it happens" easy.)

This doesn't say anything about "watering down".  This is a statement that initiatory training is not available to even all the good candidates who want it.  And no amount of "really wanted" is going to change that: the access to traditional initiatory paths is necessarily limited, and not just in terms of who's suited for them.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10174
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 254
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2015, 02:48:52 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;173342
And that's not a statement about "really want".  I've seen people say things that boil down to, "Well, if you actually really wanted this you'd do what it takes" which might mean abandoning health care, abandoning children or family, losing any financial stability, and so on, and I don't think that's "really want", I think that's being entirely irresponsible.

When I found heard someone say something like this, I thought they were an aberration, an outlier that most sane people would disagree with. Unfortunately, over the years I've hear a number of teachers in initiatory groups (and not just BTW ones) make these kinds of statements. While it is still a small percentage, the fact that there are a noticeable number of people in initiatory groups who think this way is scary. To me, these are "cult-like" positions -- and I'm using "cult" in its common negative definition.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3123
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 660
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2015, 03:35:07 pm »
Quote from: Yei;173323
I'm getting the impression from this thread that Neo-Wicca is not especially well liked. Is this a general sentiment or just something felt on this forum?

Or is it something else? Have I misunderstood?

There are several different pieces here.

Initiatory mystery-focused Craft vs. other things:

I do believe there are substantial differences between initiatory mystery-focused Craft and NeoWicca, and that it does no one any favours to conflate the two. (More than two, because I think there's also other options out there.)

But it's not that one is automatically better than another - that depends on the person, the particular kind of Craft, a bunch of other things.

It's more like choosing colleges or professions: most people have a variety of options that would suit them (but change them or challenge them in different ways) and also some things they'd be very bad at.

(There is a complicated piece for me here that is about the fact that I believe religious witchcraft in specific requires a pursuit of self-knowledge that often provokes initiatory experiences of several kinds: but there is, regardless, a difference between entry into a shared sequence of practices and mysteries and one that's something else.)

What gets edited out:

A lot of NeoWicca materials are problematic - in the sense that they encourage a "Do it this way, it is the right way" *and* often cut out vast sections of the Craft they're based on without providing a meaningful alternative - in other words, they are teaching an incomplete system without providing the tools to complete it.

One common example of this is the role of the Great Rite, but the one I find a little easier as an example is food and drink in ritual. Some NeoWiccan sources deemphasise it entirely, or refuse to consider alcohol, without looking at why those food and drink choices are there.

My training had me look at the reasons - some of which are historical (bread and some kinds of alcohol are common staple foods in many cultures), some of which are magical (I find that different kinds of drinks hold magical energy differently), some of which are logistical. (Having several different food and drink options may not work with the practical actions of the ritual.)

If someone can't have bread, I have alternatives. If someone can't have wine, I go for other foods transformed by happy bacteria: yogurt based drinks, water kefir, other things of that kind. But you note, that isn't "Alcohol is automatically bad" like some sources make it, but instead a "If we can't use alcohol, what else fills this particular set of needs in ritual?" Swapping to juice or water may work in some cases, but doesn't, for example, solve the 'how does this cup hold energy' problem for me.

A lot of NeoWiccan sources don't teach people how to look for that (and it is a skill that most people need to learn, one that isn't taught well in schools, and that usually takes a lot of practice anyway.)

(There is an argument that most of my Seeking site comes from my desire to fill in that particular common lack in most printed materials: not the stuff that you can only learn by experiencing Mystery, but the 'how does this thing fit with these other things' skills.)

Synthesis and putting together disparate practices is a skill.
There are plenty of people who do look at a wide range of resources and put things together. Or who seek out options near them. There are also people who don't. Or, as already excellently pointed out, who can't.

An illustration from my life. In the past two months, I've had (after more than a year without) two requests for training and/or group work. Both were polite, thoughtful, had clearly done reading and learning on their own, and were looking for things that require other people.

I had to turn them both down, because my job being eliminated in a few months means I a) have to focus on the job hunt, b) will absolutely be moving out of the area when I get a new job and c) my own state of chronic illness means that trying to fit some general in person stuff onto points a and b just really isn't manageable. (since I'm basically spending all my downtime resting, writing applications, travelling for interviews, or working on getting my apartment to a point I can pack and move very quickly.)

I feel horrible about having to turn them down, but that's life, and they were both very kind in response.

On the other hand, I got an email this week via my Seeking site which was basically "Tell me how all about Paganism and where I start, is there a ritual I should do first?" (which got a reply back with a "Well, most of what I have to tell you is on the website : I'd suggest starting here, then reading the things here, and I've added a note to write something about dedication rituals, but I'm not sure when I'll get it written.")

And that person got a lot less of my time (though I was still polite, and if they write back with more specific questions, I will do my best to answer) than the people who have clearly done their prep work already, and figured out what they can on their own.

This particular problem isn't a initiatory Craft vs. NeoWicca problem. It's a 'people not having the skills to figure out how to fill the gaps' problem.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 03:36:00 pm by Jenett »
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Yei

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 547
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 135
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Mexica Reconstructionism
  • Preferred Pronouns: He/Him/His
Re: Neo-Wicca, Buckland and Cunningham
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2015, 06:41:36 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;173362
There are several different pieces here.

Initiatory mystery-focused Craft vs. other things:

I do believe there are substantial differences between initiatory mystery-focused Craft and NeoWicca, and that it does no one any favours to conflate the two. (More than two, because I think there's also other options out there.)

But it's not that one is automatically better than another - that depends on the person, the particular kind of Craft, a bunch of other things.

It's more like choosing colleges or professions: most people have a variety of options that would suit them (but change them or challenge them in different ways) and also some things they'd be very bad at.

(There is a complicated piece for me here that is about the fact that I believe religious witchcraft in specific requires a pursuit of self-knowledge that often provokes initiatory experiences of several kinds: but there is, regardless, a difference between entry into a shared sequence of practices and mysteries and one that's something else.)

What gets edited out:

A lot of NeoWicca materials are problematic - in the sense that they encourage a "Do it this way, it is the right way" *and* often cut out vast sections of the Craft they're based on without providing a meaningful alternative - in other words, they are teaching an incomplete system without providing the tools to complete it.

One common example of this is the role of the Great Rite, but the one I find a little easier as an example is food and drink in ritual. Some NeoWiccan sources deemphasise it entirely, or refuse to consider alcohol, without looking at why those food and drink choices are there.

My training had me look at the reasons - some of which are historical (bread and some kinds of alcohol are common staple foods in many cultures), some of which are magical (I find that different kinds of drinks hold magical energy differently), some of which are logistical. (Having several different food and drink options may not work with the practical actions of the ritual.)

If someone can't have bread, I have alternatives. If someone can't have wine, I go for other foods transformed by happy bacteria: yogurt based drinks, water kefir, other things of that kind. But you note, that isn't "Alcohol is automatically bad" like some sources make it, but instead a "If we can't use alcohol, what else fills this particular set of needs in ritual?" Swapping to juice or water may work in some cases, but doesn't, for example, solve the 'how does this cup hold energy' problem for me.

A lot of NeoWiccan sources don't teach people how to look for that (and it is a skill that most people need to learn, one that isn't taught well in schools, and that usually takes a lot of practice anyway.)

(There is an argument that most of my Seeking site comes from my desire to fill in that particular common lack in most printed materials: not the stuff that you can only learn by experiencing Mystery, but the 'how does this thing fit with these other things' skills.)

Synthesis and putting together disparate practices is a skill.
There are plenty of people who do look at a wide range of resources and put things together. Or who seek out options near them. There are also people who don't. Or, as already excellently pointed out, who can't.

An illustration from my life. In the past two months, I've had (after more than a year without) two requests for training and/or group work. Both were polite, thoughtful, had clearly done reading and learning on their own, and were looking for things that require other people.

I had to turn them both down, because my job being eliminated in a few months means I a) have to focus on the job hunt, b) will absolutely be moving out of the area when I get a new job and c) my own state of chronic illness means that trying to fit some general in person stuff onto points a and b just really isn't manageable. (since I'm basically spending all my downtime resting, writing applications, travelling for interviews, or working on getting my apartment to a point I can pack and move very quickly.)

I feel horrible about having to turn them down, but that's life, and they were both very kind in response.

On the other hand, I got an email this week via my Seeking site which was basically "Tell me how all about Paganism and where I start, is there a ritual I should do first?" (which got a reply back with a "Well, most of what I have to tell you is on the website : I'd suggest starting here, then reading the things here, and I've added a note to write something about dedication rituals, but I'm not sure when I'll get it written.")

And that person got a lot less of my time (though I was still polite, and if they write back with more specific questions, I will do my best to answer) than the people who have clearly done their prep work already, and figured out what they can on their own.

This particular problem isn't a initiatory Craft vs. NeoWicca problem. It's a 'people not having the skills to figure out how to fill the gaps' problem.

 
I think I understand. Its not that NeoWicca is bad at all, its just that there is tendency, a fairly common one, to not fully grasp the nuances of complex ideas to which one is not familiar.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1943 Views
Last post July 06, 2011, 02:46:45 pm
by RandallS
62 Replies
11375 Views
Last post December 28, 2015, 08:41:29 pm
by Jenett
28 Replies
3642 Views
Last post July 31, 2012, 06:30:14 pm
by SunflowerP
5 Replies
1399 Views
Last post May 10, 2013, 08:30:12 pm
by Olie
4 Replies
1551 Views
Last post January 06, 2016, 05:40:00 am
by SunflowerP

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 41
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 2
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall