collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 20 October 2020: $558 donated. Only $152 more needed! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* Recent Posts

Re: Developing and Nurturing a Positive Mindset by Sefiru
[Yesterday at 07:12:35 pm]


Re: Dreaming of Moonlight on Water by entwife
[Yesterday at 12:06:02 pm]


Re: Dreaming of Moonlight on Water by PerditaPickle
[Yesterday at 07:15:27 am]


Re: Dreaming of Moonlight on Water by ehbowen
[October 18, 2020, 09:50:51 pm]


Dreaming of Moonlight on Water by entwife
[October 18, 2020, 03:14:20 pm]

Author Topic: How do you believe the universe was created? Do you believe in creator god(s)?  (Read 6300 times)

Aranel

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 299
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

My views:

I'm a medium- hard polytheistic, somewhat animistic witch but I don't do much with the gods. I have shrines set up and I do acknowledge them but I don't really involve them with my workings.

As far as I'm concerned about the creation of the universe, it was the big bang and all that jazz. No deity involved. I'm a bit unsure about where I believe the  gods came from. I sort of have the belief that they came along with life when it started on this planet, whether they kick started that I don't know or really care. I don't really believe that they have much, if any, influence outside of the Earth's atmosphere and I kind of think they sort of evolved with the Earth. (And for that case, for life on other planets, those planets have their own gods.)  
I'm a bit wishy-washy about the whole thing because it's not an important part    of my beliefs or practises so I don't really give it much thought. Bit like how I don't really hold firm beliefs about what happens after death because I'm more concerned with the here and now.

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10250
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 272
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Quote from: Aranel;109279
I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

I'm a Hellenic Pagan and I believe the universe came into being via the "Big Bang" (in some form). Basically I go with what science discovers.  Were deities involved? They could have been, nothing in science rules out their involvement (provided you do not need their involvement to match the details of some specific myth), but deity involvement does not appear to be necessary for the universe to exist.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3045
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 409
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)



Tree-hugging pagan, semi-soft polytheist, hard science guy here. I go with science on the creation of the universe--the "Big Bang"--as I do with everything else. The science inspires metaphors for understanding, appreciating, and connecting with the universe, and those are my gods and their myths.

My creation myth spells out exactly which deities did what to make the universe, our world, and us humans come into being. This is not literal truth, but it does reveal Truth to me, if that makes any sense.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Sola Stone

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 30
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

 
I'm Heathen, and I believe in the Big Bang theory. For now, anyway. It is just a theory after all, and scientists are known for changing their minds on these things. What I'm saying here is, I believe first and foremost in science.

As, for whether or not deity had anything to do with it... I believe that we created deity through our belief in said deity, so that would be a no. Although, I do find it interesting that the beginning of the Norse creation myth is similar to what is believed to have happened during the big bang...

Quote from: Aranel;109279
I don't really believe that they have much, if any, influence outside of the Earth's atmosphere and I kind of think they sort of evolved with the Earth. (And for that case, for life on other planets, those planets have their own gods.)


I agree with you, except I probably wouldn't restrict it to the atmosphere. I think a deity's realm of influence includes where ever that deity has believers, so astronauts probably still get their prayers answered.

Due to my beliefs concerning the origin of deity, it only makes sense to me that our (humanity's) gods would be most concerned with this planet (This is where their believers are after all.) and that other planets would have different gods than us.

Of course, that may change if we ever encounter life from another planet. Let's just hope our gods and theirs don't clash too much, yeah?;)
Discovering North: Where I fumble around in the dark about spiritual stuff.

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2471
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 181
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Quote from: Altair;109307
This is not literal truth, but it does reveal Truth to me, if that makes any sense.

 
Yep, it's Truth as opposed to 'fact.'  Truth with a big T makes religion work for me in a way that strict literal interpretation does not.

I don't subscribe to the big bang idea personally, but I don't discount it either.  Whatever you want to call the creation event, I believe it was an effect, not the cause.  What was the cause.  Ex nihilo nihil fit.  I believe the cause to be God, or Gods, the Force, whatever, all Truths combined.  People ask: why a God?  To which I respond: why not?
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4980
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 883
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Quote from: RandallS;109295
I'm a Hellenic Pagan and I believe the universe came into being via the "Big Bang" (in some form). Basically I go with what science discovers.  Were deities involved? They could have been, nothing in science rules out their involvement (provided you do not need their involvement to match the details of some specific myth), but deity involvement does not appear to be necessary for the universe to exist.

 
A lot depends on framework of approach, too.

Some people might interpret "Let there be light!" as being a description of the Big Bang.  Or refer to the event in mythological terms as being a first word, a first illumination, a first orgasm, what have you.

Hesiod's cosmogony is fascinating in this regard, as it can be interpreted to suggest that formless potentiality (Chaos) gave rise to solid matter (Earth) and gravity/other forms of attraction (Eros).  The theory of it is very geocentric - the production of Night and Darkness follows, then Day and the upper atmosphere, then Heaven, in addition to the heavy-elements-first conception of things - but if you look at it structurally you have a set of abstract entities or personifications evolving until the system starts producing more commonly recognised gods (the generation with Heaven as a parent, of course, produces Kronos and the Titans, who then produce the Olympians).

It's hard for me to come up with a coherent answer to this kind of question, to be honest.  Let us return to Eros in the cosmogony as a well-known example: if one believes that a god has as one of their aspects the manifestation of gravity and/or the electroweak force (and yeah, my systematisation of stuff, while Kemetic rather than Hellenic, has that sort of thing in it), it's not "this god created gravity", it's "gravity is this god".  Where did the gravity come from?  Doesn't matter to the theology, really.

Creation is a funky concept if one's dealing with immanent deity rather than transcendent.  If the "creator" is treated as coextensive with being itself, such that "creator wakes up" and "universe exists" are synonymous, that does not seem at all like the same thing as a transcendent "I made that thing" sort of power.  If the "creator" is something like Hesiod's Chaos/Void, is that really an entity in the same way that things we point at and say "creator" usually are?

One can get places by pondering this sort of thing, but in my experience a lot of people who are heavily steeped in "god=transcendent, omnipotent creator deity" can't see the value of those places or sometimes even that they're places at all.  (I mean, an atheist asked me once straight up "What's the point in worshipping a god that isn't omnipotent?" and I can't even get my head to go to a place where that's a question that makes sense to ask in the first place.  But mostly-Christian culture happened, so there are people who ask these batshit questions now.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Morag

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: deep in the woods
  • *
  • Posts: 2468
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 146
  • cranky witch
    • View Profile
    • Everyday Magic
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: zie/zir or she/her
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?

 
The Big Bang, where the "bang" is from the Smith's hammer hitting the Anvil. The Smith is one of 3 creator beings my my creation story, and bits of these beings break off and become the gods we know.

Actually it's probably just easier to explain if I link to the myth I wrote: The Story of the Smith.

Quote from: Aranel;109279
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

 
Uhhhhh. The path of Morag stumbling around, using zir shin as a device for finding furniture spirituality in the dark.
Pray drunk. Hex sober.
Everyday Magic
"The most powerful god at any given moment is the one who can solve the moment's problem."
-Darkhawk

mlr52

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 781
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.GIN.michaellrichardson.com
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

 
Currently I am a Unitarian Universalist, and I believe in the Big Bang.  That it occurred when the first entity thought it was separate, and that thought created space and time, and when all entities realize, that there is no separation, space and time will cease to exist.    

As for Gods, I agree with Harlen Ellison "if there were no gods, man would create them."
Light Your Candle, In Love and Service, Blessed Be.
I am a Notary Public for The State of New York, - I do not charge for Notary Fee\'s, I Live in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3045
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 409
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Quote from: Morag;109596
The Big Bang, where the "bang" is from the Smith's hammer hitting the Anvil. The Smith is one of 3 creator beings my my creation story, and bits of these beings break off and become the gods we know.

Actually it's probably just easier to explain if I link to the myth I wrote: The Story of the Smith.



I'm still working my way through it, but I'm really enjoying your myth, Morag. Your style of writing and your take on your gods is very different than my own--more earthly, if that makes any sense--and I'm finding that refreshing.

You should weigh in in our thread "Writing Your Own Myths":

http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/showthread.php?6264-Writing-Your-Own-Myths

(I get so excited to see what other people are doing in this little-known field!)
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Fireof9

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 937
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

My views:

I'm a medium- hard polytheistic, somewhat animistic witch but I don't do much with the gods. I have shrines set up and I do acknowledge them but I don't really involve them with my workings.

As far as I'm concerned about the creation of the universe, it was the big bang and all that jazz. No deity involved. I'm a bit unsure about where I believe the  gods came from. I sort of have the belief that they came along with life when it started on this planet, whether they kick started that I don't know or really care. I don't really believe that they have much, if any, influence outside of the Earth's atmosphere and I kind of think they sort of evolved with the Earth. (And for that case, for life on other planets, those planets have their own gods.)  
I'm a bit wishy-washy about the whole thing because it's not an important part    of my beliefs or practises so I don't really give it much thought. Bit like how I don't really hold firm beliefs about what happens after death because I'm more concerned with the here and now.

 
I'm a Gwyddon, with some heathenish leanings. Pretty much I go with what science says as to the development of the universe and all that exists in it. But I agree with Mad Zealot, I see that as the effect, not the cause. There is no solid proof as to what made the big bang happen, so it is entirely possible that there was some divine action involved. Science has not yet explained what causes that mysterious life force to exist, and I doubt that it will be explained in my lifetime.

Its one of those things that, for me, is like what happens when we die. There are a lot of theories, some make more sense to me than others, but they are all theories so I really will not go out on a limb and say I believe what any one of them claims.
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

IceAngie

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Bahía Blanca
  • Posts: 454
  • Country: ar
  • Total likes: 26
    • View Profile
    • Magia espiritual femenina
  • Religion: Religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she, her, hers
Quote from: Aranel;109279
I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)


The Universe was created in the event we call the Big Bang. I believe there was something Divine going on there, but not our gods. That Divine something became a part of everything that was created, and everything passed that Divine something to the next step of the Creation. So, eventually, we are created, and we have a part of that Divinity, and so are our gods.

My path? Not a clue. ^^ But I worship some gods, so I call myself an eclectic worshipper. :p

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2471
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 181
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Quote from: Fireof9;109654
Science has not yet explained what causes that mysterious life force to exist, and I doubt that it will be explained in my lifetime.

Its one of those things that, for me, is like what happens when we die.


Yep.  Hopefully we'll get all the answers after we cross over, but it's also possible that we won't.  I believe it's these mysteries, as well as an inherent human longing to be (re)united with Divinity (whatever that is), that leads us to create spiritual systems, and those systems are an attempt to understand and communicate certain truths-- with a capital T, the way Altair says it.  

Which is not to say I think all faiths are one faith-- that would be way too simplistic and far too incorrect.  I think they all reach, and some naturally get closer to than others.  Some are also complete crap.  In my opinion.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

Fireof9

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 937
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: MadZealot;109658
Yep.  Hopefully we'll get all the answers after we cross over, but it's also possible that we won't.  I believe it's these mysteries, as well as an inherent human longing to be (re)united with Divinity (whatever that is), that leads us to create spiritual systems, and those systems are an attempt to understand and communicate certain truths-- with a capital T, the way Altair says it.  

Which is not to say I think all faiths are one faith-- that would be way too simplistic and far too incorrect.  I think they all reach, and some naturally get closer to than others.  Some are also complete crap.  In my opinion.

 
I would love to add something profound and deep to that, but I think it sums it up in a nutshell.
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

Phouka

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 223
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?
Also, if you could say what path you are that would be great.:)

My views:

I'm a medium- hard polytheistic, somewhat animistic witch but I don't do much with the gods. I have shrines set up and I do acknowledge them but I don't really involve them with my workings.

As far as I'm concerned about the creation of the universe, it was the big bang and all that jazz. No deity involved. I'm a bit unsure about where I believe the  gods came from. I sort of have the belief that they came along with life when it started on this planet, whether they kick started that I don't know or really care. I don't really believe that they have much, if any, influence outside of the Earth's atmosphere and I kind of think they sort of evolved with the Earth. (And for that case, for life on other planets, those planets have their own gods.)  
I'm a bit wishy-washy about the whole thing because it's not an important part    of my beliefs or practises so I don't really give it much thought. Bit like how I don't really hold firm beliefs about what happens after death because I'm more concerned with the here and now.


The Irish mythology has no extant creation myths, so I'm a big bang follower.

Materialist

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 605
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: Aranel;109279
So this was sparked by a debate on another forum.

I'm interested in how you guys think the universe was created and whether you believe there was deity involved with it at all?


I go with whatever scientific theory has the most evidence supporting it. My religious practice reconstructionist, basically, with the occasional administration of Discordianism and pop culture stuff to keep me from turning into a fundamentalist zealot.

Gods on other worlds? Yes, each planet would have its own gods, in my opinion, (based on the "Genesis" miniseries by DC Comics) but we should stick to Earth gods as objects of worship because they are meant for us. If that makes sense.

Or we could all be wrong and our universe is actually the gas bubble of a fox who ate too many over ripe berries.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
1040 Views
Last post November 20, 2013, 12:50:38 am
by ethelwulf
20 Replies
3110 Views
Last post January 20, 2014, 10:26:18 pm
by Freesia
5 Replies
2029 Views
Last post October 15, 2015, 06:25:36 am
by Lilirin
15 Replies
2582 Views
Last post April 15, 2017, 08:38:17 pm
by Cinder
6 Replies
976 Views
Last post February 17, 2018, 11:15:05 am
by meno silencio

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 53
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 2
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal