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Author Topic: Elemental Rulers  (Read 4109 times)

Lokabrenna

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Elemental Rulers
« on: May 17, 2013, 01:08:05 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 06:55:35 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

 
Snarky-Morag wants to answer with "the names have been passed down from the Atlantean Dolphin Masters," but in reality I don't actually know and am curious as well.

So this is my way of bookmarking the thread to see if anyone else does know. ^_^
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Rhyshadow

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 07:18:01 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb,


I don't think those two come from there, but I'm not sure.

Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

 
That could be it entirely

Let me toss a note to my former teacher (20+years ago) and see if he knows - he's such a collector of esoteric knowledge that for things like this I toss it his way before any other research.

Jenett

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Elemental Rulers
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 11:37:29 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

I have notes about this somewhere, but I have no idea where. (Also, I am currently 2 states away from my apartment.)

My vague memory is that Levi dug them out of one of the medievalish grimoires, but which one, and how old, and how reliable it is in the first place are questions I'd need more resources than I have on hand to dig out.
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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 11:18:56 am »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

 
They have names? I had no idea (not that I ever looked into it...). I thought their names were only video games stuff. *headdesk*

Jack

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 03:12:41 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

 
Digging around on a couple of high magic boards, they're usually referred to Levi, though there are references to them possibly coming from a grimoire before that. They're not traditionally mythical to the best of my knowledge, though.
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Fagan_the_Pagan

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2013, 02:49:21 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

To be honest, I never really cared for the names, and so I don't use them.  My work doesn't generally require it.  If I have to address the elements, I just use "Fire" or "Water" and so forth.
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Riothamus12

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 05:51:03 am »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;108933
Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the "traditional" names for the elemental rulers (Paralda, Niksa, Djinn, and Gob) come from? I know what a djinn is, Niksa sounds like "nixie" and Gob sounds a bit like Geb, but I was wondering if there was any source for them other than "someone pulled the names out of their ass".

 
Here's what I consider to be the elemental rulers-
Spirit hosts;
Air: Devas
Earth:Moss Women/Wood Wives
Fire:Salamander
Water: Nereids

Deities;
Air:Ptah
Earth: Demeter
Water:Yemaja
Fire:Vulcan

In Addition to the four, I believe not only in Aether, but another force I call Shadow:
Aether: Lugh or Wotan usually though the element is androgynous
Shadow: Hecate or Zorya though androgynous
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Jack

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Elemental Rulers
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 10:27:36 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;116861
Here's what I consider to be the elemental rulers-
Spirit hosts;
Air: Devas
Earth:Moss Women/Wood Wives
Fire:Salamander
Water: Nereids

Deities;
Air:Ptah
Earth: Demeter
Water:Yemaja
Fire:Vulcan

In Addition to the four, I believe not only in Aether, but another force I call Shadow:
Aether: Lugh or Wotan usually though the element is androgynous
Shadow: Hecate or Zorya though androgynous

So, why those gods? I can sort of see the associations but they seem extremely random without some additional explanation. Are they just the gods you prefer? Do they work well together in your experience?
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Riothamus12

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 04:47:06 pm »
Quote from: Jack;116878
So, why those gods? I can sort of see the associations but they seem extremely random without some additional explanation. Are they just the gods you prefer? Do they work well together in your experience?

 
Ptah; Lord of creation, truth, prophecy, and innovation. He rules the domain of air, the domain of thought, for these things are realized or achieved through thought. It is said that his words, his great exhalation created the universe

Demeter; Goddess of the earth, fertility, agriculture, and law(not a commonly emphasized domain of hers, but yes). Few Goddesses exemplify the earth mother so greatly as the maintainer of the law as well as it's bounty.

Yemaja; Goddess of water, fertility, healing, and motherhood. Yemaja is a queen of compassion, a virtue associated with this element, it's healing powers, it's life giving nature, but also serves as a Goddess of emotions as she is both endlessly loving, and furious against the wicked.

Vulcan; God of fire, the forge, destruction, and fertility. Vulcan of the Romans though similar to Hephaestus is definitely not the same deity. To the Romans, he represented fires passionate empowering side as well as it's destructive power.


Aether associations;
Lugh, the long armed radiant one who was said to represent sun, light, fertility, and knowledge. He to me is definitely a master of the vivacious and enlightenting nature of aether. Wotan is similar in his gifted nature, and though he is an old man he is as lively an wild as the rest of the Aesir. His nature as the illuminator makes him just as much a ruler of aether as Lugh.

Shadow associations:
Hecate (who I refer to as the Mother of Night) the Goddess of magic, night, death, and transitions represents the essence of shadow as the domain of death and holy secrets. Zorya is one who fills a similar capacity in Slavic Pagan religion. I do not consider Shadow evil. No, it is quite a beneficial force. Hecate for example is a Goddess of motherhood and in ancient times was called the Tender One.
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Fionnbharr

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 05:17:25 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;116897
Ptah; Lord of creation, truth, prophecy, and innovation. He rules the domain of air, the domain of thought, for these things are realized or achieved through thought. It is said that his words, his great exhalation created the universe

Demeter; Goddess of the earth, fertility, agriculture, and law(not a commonly emphasized domain of hers, but yes). Few Goddesses exemplify the earth mother so greatly as the maintainer of the law as well as it's bounty.

Yemaja; Goddess of water, fertility, healing, and motherhood. Yemaja is a queen of compassion, a virtue associated with this element, it's healing powers, it's life giving nature, but also serves as a Goddess of emotions as she is both endlessly loving, and furious against the wicked.

Vulcan; God of fire, the forge, destruction, and fertility. Vulcan of the Romans though similar to Hephaestus is definitely not the same deity. To the Romans, he represented fires passionate empowering side as well as it's destructive power.


Aether associations;
Lugh, the long armed radiant one who was said to represent sun, light, fertility, and knowledge. He to me is definitely a master of the vivacious and enlightenting nature of aether. Wotan is similar in his gifted nature, and though he is an old man he is as lively an wild as the rest of the Aesir. His nature as the illuminator makes him just as much a ruler of aether as Lugh.

Shadow associations:
Hecate (who I refer to as the Mother of Night) the Goddess of magic, night, death, and transitions represents the essence of shadow as the domain of death and holy secrets. Zorya is one who fills a similar capacity in Slavic Pagan religion. I do not consider Shadow evil. No, it is quite a beneficial force. Hecate for example is a Goddess of motherhood and in ancient times was called the Tender One.

 
I agree with you that Vulcan does not seem like Hephaestus, the same way Diana is not Artemis and Mars is not Ares. Vulcan actually resembles Prometheus if you ask me. But the thought that any being is the ruler of an element is just hilarious to me. They might be wise beyond their age and know a lot about an element, but no one can ever rule an element of Khaos the essence of Life.

But Hekate was also called Despoine, the mistress. If you have found a way to channel the elements of the uncontrolled then keep with it, because if it works for you then why change it! Keep in mind is any of these deities tell you they are the ruler of any element then please just whack them in the head with a bat (from me) :P
Grief and sorrow grows on the far banks of the river Styx, go there and visit them and you might not find your own way back home. - Achilles

Riothamus12

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 05:31:17 pm »
Quote from: Fionnbharr;116898
I agree with you that Vulcan does not seem like Hephaestus, the same way Diana is not Artemis and Mars is not Ares. Vulcan actually resembles Prometheus if you ask me. But the thought that any being is the ruler of an element is just hilarious to me. They might be wise beyond their age and know a lot about an element, but no one can ever rule an element of Khaos the essence of Life.

But Hekate was also called Despoine, the mistress. If you have found a way to channel the elements of the uncontrolled then keep with it, because if it works for you then why change it! Keep in mind is any of these deities tell you they are the ruler of any element then please just whack them in the head with a bat (from me) :P

 
I do not argue with Gods or anyone who is wiser than me. In my beliefs the deities that rule over chaos in a way are chaos but not synonymous with it. All things flowed from them. They are Gods and thus they reign.
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Fionnbharr

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 06:13:49 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;116899
I do not argue with Gods or anyone who is wiser than me.

 
Then let's not argue :P Mwahahahaha (think of Murray from Monkey Island :P). It is just lucky for me that I do not see them as Gods (unless Everything is a God), I see Everything as equal. Whether Anything is wiser is that not a matter of opinion? All I say is rise to the fullest amount of your entirety :D
Grief and sorrow grows on the far banks of the river Styx, go there and visit them and you might not find your own way back home. - Achilles

FreemanPresson

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2014, 02:02:26 pm »
Quote from: Jack;109020
Digging around on a couple of high magic boards, they're usually referred to Levi, though there are references to them possibly coming from a grimoire before that. They're not traditionally mythical to the best of my knowledge, though.

 
I can take it back one step, anyway: Lévi would have gotten them from the Comte de Gabalis.

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Re: Elemental Rulers
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2014, 03:39:15 pm »
Quote from: FreemanPresson;148560
I can take it back one step, anyway: Lévi would have gotten them from the Comte de Gabalis.


Actually, I want to say either Cornelius Agrippa or Paracelsus.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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