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Author Topic: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers  (Read 12150 times)

Lorien35

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2013, 05:34:58 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;100869
Magic's a messy question, as it's theoretically forbidden, but there are plenty of stories--like in the 1001 Nights-
It's also important to remember that many jinn are Muslims, having converted in the same way a human might, so it's less sketchy to have dealings with a Muslim jinni, officially.


This is great thanks, is there a particular tale in 1001 nights that illustrates this? And are those tales at all representative of real magic? Also, does the magic that is kinda approved of have a different name?

Valentine

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2013, 11:03:45 pm »
Quote from: Lorien35;100890
This is great thanks, is there a particular tale in 1001 nights that illustrates this? And are those tales at all representative of real magic? Also, does the magic that is kinda approved of have a different name?

Honestly, it's really messy?  Like, divination is pretty expressly forbidden in the Qur'an (unless you split hairs and say it's just that method of divination in question), but there's nothing ethically wrong with talking to jinn, so long as you're not up to funny business.  Hexing people seems to be out--there was a pre-Islamic tradition of bringing--I guess the closest analogue in English would be like a bard?--battle poets who would curse your enemy in verse during the fight, and those poets were also used by tribes to do things like dowse for water.  The dowsing seems to be okay, but the cursing, not so much.
The trouble is finding analogues culturally for what counts as "magic," what counts as "folk tradition," and what counts as "just stuff we do."  Like, an anthropologist would probably describe the very common Muslim practice of warding a home against malevolent jinn by prominently posting a certain verse of the Qur'an as "magic," but most Muslim grandmas (or imams) who're actually doing it wouldn't.  (It's not that different from, say, the witchcraft tradition I was raised in--my mother, a Christian, would never call it "witchcraft," because that means bad things to her, but she's still doing all kinds of stuff we'd recognize as "magic" or "witch work."  She uses euphemisms that emphasize nice intentions and not being disloyal to her God.)

As to whether or not Arab and Persian fairy tales are representative of real magic...probably about as much as European fairy tales are representative of real magic?  They tell us things people would want to use magic for, they tell us some of how those people think someone would go about it, they tell us some of the rules and risks people want to warn their kids about, they contain some stuff that's standard practice and some stuff that's exaggerated or purely fantastical.  It's hard to say.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:05:26 pm by Valentine »
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
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Lorien35

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2013, 04:04:36 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;100954
Honestly, it's really messy?  Like, divination is pretty expressly forbidden in the Qur'an (unless you split hairs and say it's just that method of divination in question), but there's nothing ethically wrong with talking to jinn, so long as you're not up to funny business.  Hexing people seems to be out--there was a pre-Islamic tradition of bringing--I guess the closest analogue in English would be like a bard?--battle poets who would curse your enemy in verse during the fight, and those poets were also used by tribes to do things like dowse for water.  The dowsing seems to be okay, but the cursing, not so much.
The trouble is finding analogues culturally for what counts as "magic," what counts as "folk tradition," and what counts as "just stuff we do."  Like, an anthropologist would probably describe the very common Muslim practice of warding a home against malevolent jinn by prominently posting a certain verse of the Qur'an as "magic," but most Muslim grandmas (or imams) who're actually doing it wouldn't.  (It's not that different from, say, the witchcraft tradition I was raised in--my mother, a Christian, would never call it "witchcraft," because that means bad things to her, but she's still doing all kinds of stuff we'd recognize as "magic" or "witch work."  She uses euphemisms that emphasize nice intentions and not being disloyal to her God.)

As to whether or not Arab and Persian fairy tales are representative of real magic...probably about as much as European fairy tales are representative of real magic?  They tell us things people would want to use magic for, they tell us some of how those people think someone would go about it, they tell us some of the rules and risks people want to warn their kids about, they contain some stuff that's standard practice and some stuff that's exaggerated or purely fantastical.  It's hard to say.

 
Thanks that helped a lot, do you have any specific sources I could read if I wanted to try some arabic magic? Something that would give me a feel for it without being too deep? I really prefer to start small with something new. Is that ok?

Valentine

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2013, 04:18:00 pm »
Quote from: Lorien35;101119
Thanks that helped a lot, do you have any specific sources I could read if I wanted to try some arabic magic? Something that would give me a feel for it without being too deep? I really prefer to start small with something new. Is that ok?

 
I'm afraid I don't have good resources on that.  I can offer resources on the culture, but not the magic. It's just not my area.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
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zenobia

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2013, 11:43:54 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;101121
I'm afraid I don't have good resources on that.  I can offer resources on the culture, but not the magic. It's just not my area.

This is a bit late; but an nice article with links:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/astrology1.html
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 11:44:54 pm by zenobia »

Lionrhod

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2013, 02:34:26 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;86459
The three principal Goddesses that were worshiped in Arabia, and in Iraq, are name Al-Lat, Al Uzza, and Manat.

Al Lat, whose name literally means the Goddess, was a goddess of things such as the harvest, fertility, and love and was associated with the sun.

Al Uzza, the Mighty One, was the Goddess of Honor, Justice, War, and Passion. She was associated withe the stars at night.

And Manat was the Goddess of Fate, death, and the afterlife. She was associated with the moon.

This is obviously only surface level but I think that it will do for now :P



Hopefully. Life likes to get in the way of writing a blog or something.



A long road through many religions and worldviews until something just clicked and the rituals and prayers started causing things to happen, which is always good. ;)

 
Fascinating stuff. I hope you will write a blog - and notify us all when it's up! I have heard of Al Lat, but wasn't familiar with the other two. I'm always interested in learning as much as I can about other paths, though I personally am Celtic/Welsh Celtic Wiccan/Wysardn.

I suspect that as you develop this, you'll find a strong interest in the path you're creating.

Glad you intend to make use of the gorgeous calligraphy too!

What if any, Holy days do you feel are important to your path, and how do you celebrate them?
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