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Author Topic: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?  (Read 19601 times)

GKGhost

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2016, 05:16:52 am »
Quote from: Blaithin;15658
Is cultural appropriation acceptable, sometimes acceptable, never acceptable? What do you think :confused:

If you don't know what you're doing than cultural appropriation is disrespectful and makes you out of be an ignorant fool.

I am a quarter Japanese, I have spent many years in Japan, Korea & China, and I get highly offended by people employing Japanese culture into their meshed up beliefs because 8.5 out of 10 times they don't have a freaking clue what they're doing. And I am not talking solely religious but all round they have no idea what they are doing.

After all, if you're not raised on the culture what do you know of it... pretty much very little to absolutely nothing.

I mean there's a blog by a westerner about Japanese culture simplified for other westerners. It's a simple blog. And misses so many facets of particular aspects of Japanese culture the clown would be better off having never created the blog in the first place.


There's a saying of how ignorance is bliss. Well, there's another saying of how to assume makes an ass out of u & me ... or essentially makes an ass of those making the assumptions.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 05:17:38 am by GKGhost »

GKGhost

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2016, 05:21:36 am »
Quote from: Snake-Bitten;197824
I met a shaman, oddly enough, a white man who has been trained by natives in both North America and Peru, and thanks to his gentle wisdom and acceptance my life was dramatically changed for the better. It was like life finally made sense to me for the first time, ever.

Ah a "plastic shaman". With such a "claim" I highly doubt he was trained by any legit aboriginals. He would have appropriated what he knew and made up the rest. It seems passable enough to those that don't know anything about the culture itself.

Plastic shamans are quite amusing and won't have a leg to stand on compared to real aboriginals. I'd know for despite being mostly British with Japanese ancestry I happen to be very good friends with countless real aboriginals all across Canada seeing as I spent four years studying aboriginal culture in university being one of three "white kids" in the class. You learn quite a bit when you go to the real source.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 05:24:22 am by GKGhost »

jmwbb

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2016, 08:32:22 am »
Quote from: GKGhost;197832
Ah a "plastic shaman". With such a "claim" I highly doubt he was trained by any legit aboriginals. He would have appropriated what he knew and made up the rest. It seems passable enough to those that don't know anything about the culture itself.

Plastic shamans are quite amusing and won't have a leg to stand on compared to real aboriginals. I'd know for despite being mostly British with Japanese ancestry I happen to be very good friends with countless real aboriginals all across Canada seeing as I spent four years studying aboriginal culture in university being one of three "white kids" in the class. You learn quite a bit when you go to the real source.

 
So you know lots about Aboriginal culture because you have real Aboriginal friends and have gone to the real source, but as soon as someone else claims to know someone who's done the same, they're lying and plastic? What am I missing here?

Castus

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2016, 12:24:05 pm »
Quote from: GKGhost;197831
If you don't know what you're doing than cultural appropriation is disrespectful and makes you out of be an ignorant fool.

I am a quarter Japanese, I have spent many years in Japan, Korea & China, and I get highly offended by people employing Japanese culture into their meshed up beliefs because 8.5 out of 10 times they don't have a freaking clue what they're doing. And I am not talking solely religious but all round they have no idea what they are doing.

After all, if you're not raised on the culture what do you know of it... pretty much very little to absolutely nothing.

I mean there's a blog by a westerner about Japanese culture simplified for other westerners. It's a simple blog. And misses so many facets of particular aspects of Japanese culture the clown would be better off having never created the blog in the first place.


There's a saying of how ignorance is bliss. Well, there's another saying of how to assume makes an ass out of u & me ... or essentially makes an ass of those making the assumptions.

 
Well, you sound like a thoroughly abrasive and unpleasant person.

Snake-Bitten

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2016, 12:38:42 pm »
Quote from: Jack;197829
I'm not following the line there, mostly because 'outsider legitimately initiated into a closed tradition' is the opposite of cultural appropriation.


Refer to GKGhost's reply to see someone mistaking this for cultural appropriation.


Quote from: GKGhost;197832
Ah a "plastic shaman". With such a "claim" I highly doubt he was trained by any legit aboriginals. He would have appropriated what he knew and made up the rest. It seems passable enough to those that don't know anything about the culture itself.

Plastic shamans are quite amusing and won't have a leg to stand on compared to real aboriginals. I'd know for despite being mostly British with Japanese ancestry I happen to be very good friends with countless real aboriginals all across Canada seeing as I spent four years studying aboriginal culture in university being one of three "white kids" in the class. You learn quite a bit when you go to the real source.



You are an arrogant fool.


Quote from: jmwbb;197835
What am I missing here?


The delusional conclusion that social connections and education equate to omnipotence of a particular subject and any person associated with said subject.

Jack

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2016, 01:41:10 pm »
Quote from: Snake-Bitten;197840
Refer to GKGhost's reply to see someone mistaking this for cultural appropriation.

Haha yeah that was pretty obnoxious, wasn't it?

But cultural appropriation is a real thing, too.

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2016, 01:57:25 pm »
Quote from: Snake-Bitten;197840
You are an arrogant fool.

 
A Reminder:
Snake-Bitten,

Do not make personal attacks on other members. "You are an arrogant fool" is not an attack on GKGhost's ideas or beliefs, but on them as a person. Personal attacks are very much against our rules, which you agreed to when you signed up.

Since you are still very new to the forum, I'm giving you a reminder and not a warning. Go re-read the rules before proceeding further.  

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Snake-Bitten

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2016, 02:36:53 pm »
Quote from: Allaya;197852
A Reminder:
Snake-Bitten,

Do not make personal attacks on other members. "You are an arrogant fool" is not an attack on GKGhost's ideas or beliefs, but on them as a person. Personal attacks are very much against our rules, which you agreed to when you signed up.

Since you are still very new to the forum, I'm giving you a reminder and not a warning. Go re-read the rules before proceeding further.  

Allaya
TC Staff


Apologies to you and the community. I recant, and replace my previous statement with acknowledgement that GkGhost's opinion of myself and my associate stems from a position of ignorance, and is therefore unworthy of my response.


Quote from: Jack;197849

But cultural appropriation is a real thing, too.


Agreed. If someone is using a culture for some sort of personal gain (monetary, social, etc), then the fault lies with them. However, I think in our changing world there are too many people claiming appropriation for the sake of some fear-based, emotional fulfillment (a discussion for another topic). It is my hope that one day this will not be the case, and we can all let each other live their own truths in peace, without hostile accusations.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2016, 04:30:56 pm »
Quote from: GKGhost;197831

I am a quarter Japanese, I have spent many years in Japan, Korea & China, and I get highly offended by people employing Japanese culture into their meshed up beliefs because 8.5 out of 10 times they don't have a freaking clue what they're doing. And I am not talking solely religious but all round they have no idea what they are doing.

 
What do people from Japan think of it? Because, y'know, that actually matters a lot to me then whether a fellow Brit is offended or not.  Especially as I don't believe culture, ethnicity and nationality are interchangable concepts.

Because if we're going to talk about cultural appropriation of Japanese culture, we need to start from a Japanese understanding of the concept. Not one rooted in Western identity politics.
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lunarwxtch

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2016, 07:21:39 am »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;197870
Because if we're going to talk about cultural appropriation of Japanese culture, we need to start from a Japanese understanding of the concept. Not one rooted in Western identity politics.

 
Quote from: GKGhost;197831
I am a quarter Japanese, I have spent many years in Japan, Korea & China, and I get highly offended by people employing Japanese culture into their meshed up beliefs because 8.5 out of 10 times they don't have a freaking clue what they're doing. And I am not talking solely religious but all round they have no idea what they are doing.

 
While it is possible that people can be too abrasive about social issues, I think it is difficult to be when it comes to racism. And while this subject is one that deserves/needs to be discussed, it's a problem in which the opinions of PoC are often far more helpful, as cultural appropriation affects them.

I am white, and I have no idea who is/isn't white in this discussion but I think that needed saying.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2016, 08:54:10 am »
Quote from: lunarwxtch;197905
While it is possible that people can be too abrasive about social issues, I think it is difficult to be when it comes to racism.


Sure, I don't have a problem with abrasiveness per se. It's a useful tactic at times.

Quote
And while this subject is one that deserves/needs to be discussed, it's a problem in which the opinions of PoC are often far more helpful, as cultural appropriation affects them.


I agree, with qualifiers. I think the opinon of the group affected is more helpful.

I do not think, say, that a member of the British Asian community has any additional insight or authority to speak on appropriation of Native American culture.

It may help to take a specific example.

On the issue of dreadlocks, I think the opinion of Rastafarians is highly relevant. As would be the opinion of a member of the Masai tribe, if I knew any.  I do not believe that it's as straightforward as the internet popular view that any African American has a higher level of authority on the subject.

That, perhaps controversially, includes people who have Masai etc. in their distant ancestry.  To repeat what I said above, ancestry and culture are not the same thing. In the same way as I believe "Irish Americans" and "Irish" have different cultures.

In fact, I think the whole ancestry-as-culture argument links into what was previously said in the thread about people refusing to accept that they already have a culture and grasping round for something else.

Quote
I am white, and I have no idea who is/isn't white in this discussion but I think that needed saying.

 
White working class here, in terms of background. Scots on one side, on the other Eastern European Jews who were economic migrants to America last century.

It does raise an interesting question though. If we're talking about cultural appropriation does it exist outside of race?

To illustrate what I mean:

Are middle class people with shaved heads appropriating my culture?

Is a nice middle class boy like Ice Cube singing gangsta rap appropriation of working class African-American culture?

Is the heavy influence of Northern Soul dance moves on breakdancing appropriation of English working class culture?

(To give my answers to those questions in order. No, there's just not enough significance to that particular hairstyle. Potentially, but I don't really feel qualified to answer that one. Definitely not, it's one of the best examples of positive and respectful cultural borrowing I know).
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Yei

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Re: Cultural Appropriation - Yay or Nay?
« Reply #116 on: October 25, 2016, 05:18:52 pm »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;197908

It does raise an interesting question though. If we're talking about cultural appropriation does it exist outside of race?

To illustrate what I mean:

Are middle class people with shaved heads appropriating my culture?

Is a nice middle class boy like Ice Cube singing gangsta rap appropriation of working class African-American culture?

Is the heavy influence of Northern Soul dance moves on breakdancing appropriation of English working class culture?

(To give my answers to those questions in order. No, there's just not enough significance to that particular hairstyle. Potentially, but I don't really feel qualified to answer that one. Definitely not, it's one of the best examples of positive and respectful cultural borrowing I know).

 
I think its entirely possible. In fact, I believe that it is a part of Gentrification, which is actually a good analogue to ethnic appropriation now that I think about it.

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