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Author Topic: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?  (Read 12721 times)

yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 01:52:22 pm »
Quote from: Ula;55754
They seem more goddess (Mary) friendly. To each his own. It's as legit a faith as any other.


Except that Catholics (except maybe a few fringe folks) don't see Mary as a goddess.

Brina

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 02:24:26 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;55778
Except that Catholics (except maybe a few fringe folks) don't see Mary as a goddess.

Brina

 
In general no, but most pagan Catholic I have talked to do.

Owl

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 02:34:07 pm »
Quote from: Ula;55781
In general no, but most pagan Catholic I have talked to do.

 
Pagan Catholic is not in line with the tenets of the Catholic church where Mary is only revered as the mother of Christ.
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yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 04:18:27 pm »
Quote from: Ula;55781
In general no, but most pagan Catholic I have talked to do.


I'm guessing you don't know a lot of Catholics, then.  Reverence for Mary isn't even close to the same thing as considering her a goddess.

Brina

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 04:49:29 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;55803
Reverence for Mary isn't even close to the same thing as considering her a goddess.


Perhaps not strictly speaking, but doesn't the idea of a "Marian Cult" sort of skirt the edge a bit? Has she not in fact been actually worshipped at times by some? Doesn't the Assumption make her a bit extra-human?

yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 05:34:01 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;55808
Perhaps not strictly speaking, but doesn't the idea of a "Marian Cult" sort of skirt the edge a bit? Has she not in fact been actually worshipped at times by some? Doesn't the Assumption make her a bit extra-human?

 
It's an uncommon belief was my point.  And definitely heretical per Catholic doctrine.  Ula's sampling of Catholics she knows isn't particularly representative.

Brina

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 06:35:40 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;55813
It's an uncommon belief was my point.  And definitely heretical per Catholic doctrine.  Ula's sampling of Catholics she knows isn't particularly representative.

Having lived in South Texas for much of my life, I know a large number of Catholics. I don't think I know any who see Mary as a goddess. A few see her as having some type of "co-redeemer" role with Jesus (a heretical view itself) but I don't think even those who see Mary in that way would say she is a goddess or even part of the Trinity/Godhead.
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yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 06:54:34 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;55823
Having lived in South Texas for much of my life, I know a large number of Catholics. I don't think I know any who see Mary as a goddess. A few see her as having some type of "co-redeemer" role with Jesus (a heretical view itself) but I don't think even those who see Mary in that way would say she is a goddess or even part of the Trinity/Godhead.


My mother's Catholic, and I grew up (through most of my teens, anyway) around a large Mexican American Catholic community (Northern California agricultural country) and never met anyone who believed anything close to what Ula mentioned.  And this was a community for whom a fair amount of syncretism was common.

Brina

Etheric1

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 07:33:37 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669
As I mentioned before, I am interested in Christo-Paganism. Mostly the idea that God-the-Father has a wife.

I have read about, and from what I can tell, the main beef Christians have with it is the polytheism, which mostly seems to be a matter of the Christianity that survived. Old Goddess cults back in the days of Jesus, you know.

The main complaint from the Pagan community seems to be about Original Sin. From what I understand, Adam's transgression against God (and presumably Goddess.) led to a permanently damaged nature, which Pagans reject. Some (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) friends reject the doctrine of Original Sin, and instead say that God (and Goddess?) gave us a broken world to fix with each other and Them.

Presumably, then, we could argue that Jesus was a a teacher to put us back on the right path, which I will say we might have needed. Kind of does away with the importance of Jesus' sacrifice.

With as much variation in the Pagan community (Reincarnation or not, nature of deities, purpose of life, acceptability of magick, what constitutes "good" magick, and the really small stuff like "What direction is Earth, is Air green or yellow, is Mint a Fire or an Air herb.) and general eclecticism, I am surprised Christo-Paganism is treated with as much venom as some give it.

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!


I personally don't like it.  I think it's cherry-picking things to try to force a religion into
something it is not.  It's fine to question things and allow some flexibility, however in this case it strikes me as way too much bastardization of religions - just taking in what a person likes and throwing out the rest.  Quite simply, there is a lot of teachings in the Bible that are not exactly tolerant toward other concepts of faith, and I do not think they belong together.  

Having said that, I regard Jesus as a significant person with a lot of good wisdom to the stories, but I also think the same of Buddha and Lao Tzu.  I suppose the label of "spiritual" is probably more appropriate, but I do get moderately annoyed with the term Christian-Pagan.  

I will say though, that my opinion here is as someone who grew up Catholic and I have plenty of issues with that church and have no intention of letting them go, or reconciling these issues.  

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Owl

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 08:57:59 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;55827
My mother's Catholic, and I grew up (through most of my teens, anyway) around a large Mexican American Catholic community (Northern California agricultural country) and never met anyone who believed anything close to what Ula mentioned.  And this was a community for whom a fair amount of syncretism was common.

Brina


Having been raised Catholic, I have to go with Brina and Randall
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Holdasown

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 09:03:24 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;55823
...


I live in a very Catholic area. None of the strict or even non -practicing Catholics view Mary as a goddess. Since I specifically said PAGAN Catholics and you all have ignored that I will just say you are all right, I am wrong and leave the thread.

sailor

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 09:15:44 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669


The main complaint from the Pagan community seems to be about Original Sin. From what I understand, Adam's transgression against God (and presumably Goddess.) led to a permanently damaged nature, which Pagans reject. Some (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) friends reject the doctrine of Original Sin, and instead say that God (and Goddess?) gave us a broken world to fix with each other and Them.


 
Original Sin is a Christian doctrine. Jews don't believe in it. So, all Jews reject Original Sin, not just some. I don't know about Muslim beliefs in this regard.

Juniperberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2012, 10:35:25 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!


I don't know. I don't think it's impossibe, or even that unique. There's a few books out there that discuss the Germanization of Christianity, where Northern Europe/England changed the religion of Christianity much more than Christianity changed the pagan religions. It wasn't so much a conversion as it was an adherence to certain rituals and rules, but quite a bit of the worldview hung on.

So, I think you can create a pagan-Christian worship and belief system since its basically already been done.
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yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2012, 11:44:40 pm »
Quote from: Ula;55840
I live in a very Catholic area. None of the strict or even non -practicing Catholics view Mary as a goddess. Since I specifically said PAGAN Catholics and you all have ignored that I will just say you are all right, I am wrong and leave the thread.


I wish you wouldn't leave, because I have no idea what a pagan Catholic looks like.

Brina

yewberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2012, 11:52:37 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;55844
So, I think you can create a pagan-Christian worship and belief system since its basically already been done.

 
Syncretism (as I mentioned in a previous post) was very common among the cultures converted to Christianity.  But there are core tenets in Christian denominations that, when changed or totally removed, make the religion something else.  Voudoun is an excellent example.  While there are underlying aspects of Christian beliefs, the religion is so utterly different that an entirely new moniker makes intrinsic sense.

I sorely wish other syncretic belief systems that incorporate Christian components would do the same.

Brina

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