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Author Topic: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?  (Read 12722 times)

Blackbird Sage

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Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« on: May 20, 2012, 09:18:28 pm »
As I mentioned before, I am interested in Christo-Paganism. Mostly the idea that God-the-Father has a wife.

I have read about, and from what I can tell, the main beef Christians have with it is the polytheism, which mostly seems to be a matter of the Christianity that survived. Old Goddess cults back in the days of Jesus, you know.

The main complaint from the Pagan community seems to be about Original Sin. From what I understand, Adam's transgression against God (and presumably Goddess.) led to a permanently damaged nature, which Pagans reject. Some (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) friends reject the doctrine of Original Sin, and instead say that God (and Goddess?) gave us a broken world to fix with each other and Them.

Presumably, then, we could argue that Jesus was a a teacher to put us back on the right path, which I will say we might have needed. Kind of does away with the importance of Jesus' sacrifice.

With as much variation in the Pagan community (Reincarnation or not, nature of deities, purpose of life, acceptability of magick, what constitutes "good" magick, and the really small stuff like "What direction is Earth, is Air green or yellow, is Mint a Fire or an Air herb.) and general eclecticism, I am surprised Christo-Paganism is treated with as much venom as some give it.

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!

Agonistes

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 09:46:37 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669
As I mentioned before, I am interested in Christo-Paganism. Mostly the idea that God-the-Father has a wife.

I have read about, and from what I can tell, the main beef Christians have with it is the polytheism, which mostly seems to be a matter of the Christianity that survived. Old Goddess cults back in the days of Jesus, you know.

The main complaint from the Pagan community seems to be about Original Sin. From what I understand, Adam's transgression against God (and presumably Goddess.) led to a permanently damaged nature, which Pagans reject. Some (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) friends reject the doctrine of Original Sin, and instead say that God (and Goddess?) gave us a broken world to fix with each other and Them.

Presumably, then, we could argue that Jesus was a a teacher to put us back on the right path, which I will say we might have needed. Kind of does away with the importance of Jesus' sacrifice.

With as much variation in the Pagan community (Reincarnation or not, nature of deities, purpose of life, acceptability of magick, what constitutes "good" magick, and the really small stuff like "What direction is Earth, is Air green or yellow, is Mint a Fire or an Air herb.) and general eclecticism, I am surprised Christo-Paganism is treated with as much venom as some give it.

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!

 
I, personally, have no beef with any other religion. I, in fact, know a fellow who is both Christian and Neo-Pagan with an emphasis on the Greek pantheon. I'm not sure how he does that, but I think his thing is that, from what I heard him say, the Christian god said there shall be no other gods before him, but he cares not for those that come under him... That sounds confusing, and I know nothing of it, for I'm not a Christian in any sense, but that's what he keeps telling me--so I know not if it holds any truth.

I don't think nature was permanently damaged by any transgression such as that, but what we are doing to the world today could be the real damage and I could see that as being an ultimate truth.

Many people wish to argue over everything in the pagan community, just as any religious sect or niche everyone has their own views and own interpretations of research. So, my opinion, would be do what you feel is going to lead you down the correct path. If anything, most religions can agree that we're all just here looking/waiting/praying for something.

RandallS

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 09:59:31 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669
But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)?

At least from a Christian POV, it doesn't really work without stretching Christianity into something it isn't. From a Pagan POV, it's fine. I think the name causes problems. Pagans who happen to worship Jesus among other deities works, but the "Christo-Pagan" name implies is more the other way around.
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mlr52

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 10:05:32 pm »
Quote from: Agonistes;55678
the Christian god said there shall be no other gods before him

I see this as an admission by the Christian god, that there are other gods.
He is saying he is at the head of the pecking order.
Light Your Candle, In Love and Service, Blessed Be.
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Celtag

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 10:11:04 pm »
Quote from: mlr52;55681
I see this as an admission by the Christian god, that there are other gods.
He is saying he is at the head of the pecking order.
Yeah when I was a Christian I used to ask my Sunday school teachers about that, and they just told me false Gods, and to shut up. lol They got mad at me a lot.
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mlr52

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 11:21:04 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;55684
Yeah when I was a Christian I used to ask my Sunday school teachers about that, and they just told me false Gods, and to shut up. lol They got mad at me a lot.

 
If the quote is as the Christian god said it, it does not address false gods, just other gods.  I am quite sure if he meant false gods he would of said so.
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 11:33:06 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669


But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!


I don't know enough about it to have a complaint about it or see specific problems with it. The Bible is problematic for me for several reasons. The first of which would be that I and my kind are not to be suffered to live, but I have no idea what take on that text Christo-Pagans have. If it is all good except God has a wife, then I'd have the same problems.

Celtag

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 11:48:13 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;55693
I don't know enough about it to have a complaint about it or see specific problems with it. The Bible is problematic for me for several reasons. The first of which would be that I and my kind are not to be suffered to live, but I have no idea what take on that text Christo-Pagans have. If it is all good except God has a wife, then I'd have the same problems.
When I first started out into the world of Paganism, I tried to do the whole Christian-Pagan mix, but it just doesn't seem to work very well, without taking the Bible and pretty much picking and choosing what you want out of it. Because you can really worship other deities and say your a Christian. Because being a Christian means you worship one God and that's it. Now Mormons believe something a little different, but I won't get into that.
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Owl

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 11:54:19 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669

Having been raised Catholic, I don't see any way you can mix pagan with Christian and still be able to claim any Christian.  The Christian god is quite clear that he does not play well with others, does not share, and wants you all or nothing.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 12:45:33 am by Marilyn/Absentminded »
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PlaceboArtist

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 06:51:40 am »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669
As I mentioned before, I am interested in Christo-Paganism. Mostly the idea that God-the-Father has a wife.

I have read about, and from what I can tell, the main beef Christians have with it is the polytheism, which mostly seems to be a matter of the Christianity that survived. Old Goddess cults back in the days of Jesus, you know.

The main complaint from the Pagan community seems to be about Original Sin. From what I understand, Adam's transgression against God (and presumably Goddess.) led to a permanently damaged nature, which Pagans reject. Some (Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) friends reject the doctrine of Original Sin, and instead say that God (and Goddess?) gave us a broken world to fix with each other and Them.

Presumably, then, we could argue that Jesus was a a teacher to put us back on the right path, which I will say we might have needed. Kind of does away with the importance of Jesus' sacrifice.

With as much variation in the Pagan community (Reincarnation or not, nature of deities, purpose of life, acceptability of magick, what constitutes "good" magick, and the really small stuff like "What direction is Earth, is Air green or yellow, is Mint a Fire or an Air herb.) and general eclecticism, I am surprised Christo-Paganism is treated with as much venom as some give it.

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!

 
I think it's perfectly possible to follow Jesus's teachings and be a Pagan. I know a couple of people who are atheists and follow Jesus in everything but his belief in Yaweh. So you could worship Pagan gods but still follow Jesus in loving everyone, not judging people, turning the other cheek etc. Note that Jesus himself never said he was divine - only calls God his father, and he teaches his disciples to do likewise so it's clearly meant metaphorically.

The difficulty comes when, instead of adding Jesus's teachings to Paganism, you try to mix Christianity and Paganism and come up with a coherent religion. Christian teachings include not only what Jesus said, but the whole Old Testament (though it can be argued that Jesus's covenant 'overwrote' the 613 mitzvot) and the letters of the apostles. That includes specific teachings about not practising Witchcraft, a commandment imposing at least henotheism (no other gods before me) and a strict ban on idols. Which seems to me to be completely in opposition to Paganism in most of its forms. Adding Paganism to Christianity and then removing the parts that are prohibited in the Bible leaves only reverence for nature (and possibly belief in, although not worship of multiple gods). And if you're a Christian that reveres nature, you'd probably just call yourself a Green.

Tana

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 07:03:06 am »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition?


Well, whatever floats the boat... but it seems so very conflicting to me. It's like claiming to be a carnivorous-vegetarian - if the two main things in a label exclude each other, all I can say good luck with mixing them.

Besides, what I know of the Christian god - as others have mentioned - is that he won't like it very much to be one amongst others. He very likely won't react to such an approach.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Aubrey_Rose

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2012, 07:26:19 am »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669


But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!

 
I consider myself to be christo-paganish.

Though my beliefs are constantly changing. I believe in our God the Father, I believe he had a wife. I believe Jesus Christ was his son.

I also praise other Gods.  and Our mother regularly.

To me it just has a lot to do with the fact that God (the christian God) didn't call to me as strongly as our mother or some of the other deities.

Some Christo-Pagans only believe in God. They just practice magic on the side. It really depends who you talk to.
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RandallS

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 08:20:45 am »
Quote from: mlr52;55681
I see this as an admission by the Christian god, that there are other gods.
He is saying he is at the head of the pecking order.

That is one way to interpret it. However, it can also be interpreted as the "other gods" being "non-existent" (so don't insult me by worshiping them). At best it is saying "don't insult me by worshiping other gods".
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Jabberwocky

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 09:19:39 am »
Quote from: RandallS;55680
At least from a Christian POV, it doesn't really work without stretching Christianity into something it isn't.

It's definitely heretical, but I'm not sure it's actually apostasy.  No more so than a Christian sect like the Ranters, who predate the modern concept of Paganism by centuries.  It's worth noting that they did reject the authority of scripture though, which may be necessary for this to work.
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Holdasown

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Re: Christo-Paganism. Yay or Nay?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 12:00:49 pm »
Quote from: Blackbird Sage;55669

But I digress, what is your opinion on Christo-Paganism? What problems do you have with it? What is your opinion of Christo-Pagans (Are they Christians or Pagans?)? How do you see the future of this path playing out? Is Christo a good name for the tradition? (Personally, I say "Christian" just means follower/worshipper of the Christ, I.E. Jesus, but...)

Thanks!

 
I have no issue with it. There are texts that have been left out of the bible that talk about god as male/ female with the Holy Spirit being female. People have to remember that the Bible isn't all Jesus word for word. If you look at this specific speeches there is a lot not said about anything but loving god and your neighbor. Paul goes on about witches, sin and all that more than Christ. I think it can blend well especially with Catholics. They seem more goddess (Mary) friendly. To each his own. It's as legit a faith as any other.

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