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Author Topic: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch  (Read 2388 times)

PrincessKLS

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Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« on: October 16, 2014, 11:35:17 am »
Okay so apparently all the Abrahamic religions have their pagan/witchcraft friendly components, but how do they differ?
PrincessKLS

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 01:17:35 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;162474
Okay so apparently all the Abrahamic religions have their pagan/witchcraft friendly components, but how do they differ?
I assume you're looking for something more than: some of them are Jewish, some of them work with Christ and see him as the messiah, some of them honor Muhammad as the Prophet? XD
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Draupadi

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 01:37:56 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;162474
Okay so apparently all the Abrahamic religions have their pagan/witchcraft friendly components, but how do they differ?


I have a friend who is a Muslim witch; she is a Sufi. Sufism is Islam's mystic side, like Kabbalah for Judaism. Not sure what mystic Christianity is called.

Sarah

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 02:02:18 pm »
Quote from: Waterbender;179067
I have a friend who is a Muslim witch; she is a Sufi. Sufism is Islam's mystic side, like Kabbalah for Judaism. Not sure what mystic Christianity is called.

 
I don't think one needs to be a mystic to be a witch? In Christianity at least there's a long tradition of folk magic practitioners  who would not have been thought of by themselves or others as mystics.
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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 02:07:08 pm »
Quote from: Jake_;179070
I don't think one needs to be a mystic to be a witch? In Christianity at least there's a long tradition of folk magic practitioners  who would not have been thought of by themselves or others as mystics.

 
I know someone who has a witch line in her family with the skill to charm off warts for a penny.  This is not mysticism.  It doesn't have anything to do with religion, either.

Witchcraft is basically a technology.  It has no more necessary connection to religion than, say, phone use.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Weatherwax

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 03:34:12 pm »
Quote from: Waterbender;179067
I have a friend who is a Muslim witch; she is a Sufi. Sufism is Islam's mystic side, like Kabbalah for Judaism. Not sure what mystic Christianity is called.

 
Though it's never called "witchcraft" there is a strong tradition of casting spells using Kuranic prayers amongst other things (ie. grave dirt) and it's quite common in Turkey for example. One could say "someone cast a spell on me/cursed me" after a particularly bad period, half in joking but not completely. My own grandmother had notes scribbled behind old books of hers. Because it's not a religion in itself, it's never such a big deal, like in a lot of other communities it's folk magic. The religious scholars etc. condemn it I'm sure, saying it's non-Islamic, unChristian, etc. but many traditions just carry on.

Just to give you an example: I used to live in a Williamsburg hip neighborhood (its equivalent in Istanbul anyway) and I had friends who'd go to this old lady every month or so to have hot lead poured over their head (not directly of course, to a pan, for the "bad eye", Italians have the same thing.) It can be THAT common.

Draupadi

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 02:06:45 pm »
Quote from: Weatherwax;179079
Though it's never called "witchcraft" there is a strong tradition of casting spells using Kuranic prayers amongst other things (ie. grave dirt) and it's quite common in Turkey for example. One could say "someone cast a spell on me/cursed me" after a particularly bad period, half in joking but not completely. My own grandmother had notes scribbled behind old books of hers. Because it's not a religion in itself, it's never such a big deal, like in a lot of other communities it's folk magic. The religious scholars etc. condemn it I'm sure, saying it's non-Islamic, unChristian, etc. but many traditions just carry on.

Just to give you an example: I used to live in a Williamsburg hip neighborhood (its equivalent in Istanbul anyway) and I had friends who'd go to this old lady every month or so to have hot lead poured over their head (not directly of course, to a pan, for the "bad eye", Italians have the same thing.) It can be THAT common.


Fascinating. It really makes you realize what a privilege it is to live in a society where magick is considered normal, because I'd love that.

And yes of course I agree with everyone that witchcraft can be practiced independent of any religion; there are witches who are atheists I'm sure. But I had assumed traditional Muslims & Christians in the "mainstream" would shrink at the thought of practicing witchcraft, which is where OP's original confusion seemed to come from. So I thought I'd mention the mystical traditions of those religions as an explanation for why my friend, for example, found witchcraft more acceptable rather than taboo.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 07:08:15 am »
Quote from: Waterbender;179094
But I had assumed traditional Muslims & Christians in the "mainstream" would shrink at the thought of practicing witchcraft, which is where OP's original confusion seemed to come from. So I thought I'd mention the mystical traditions of those religions as an explanation for why my friend, for example, found witchcraft more acceptable rather than taboo.


It is seldom that simple. There has always been a difference between the official ('elite') level of a religion and the grassroot ('popular') level of the same religion. This is especially true about Christianity, since in Judaism and Islam 'supernatural' practices have sometimes been practiced even on the official level. Sufis who have practiced Ruhaniyat (I hope the spelling is correct) have often been experts on Sharia law, too. Ultra-Orthodox rabbis have served their synagogues in their official capacity, but within their own socio-cultural group it has not been controversial that they have written amulets for people in need.

The gap between official and popular levels have been more prevalent among Christians. It is probably true that most Christians 'would shrink at the thought of practicing witchcraft', but it is equally true that those Christians who practiced folk magic (not using the word 'witchcraft' about it) considered themselves to be perfectly orthodox Christians. The official Christian worldview remain intact in their beliefs, but they have often added inofficial elements to that worldview on an intermediate or parallel level: The survival of the belief in elves or fairies among Lutherans and Anglicans, for instance. Scandinavian cunning men and women in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries accepted the official Lutheran worldview with Holy Trinity, angels, saints and evil spirits, but other elements of belief were added (the existence of the lindworm and the Skogsfrun). The use of Psalms in folk magic occurs within both Judaism and Christianity. It seems like the Jewish Shimmush Tehillin influenced Christian magical books like Livre d'Or and Gottfried Seelig's Secrets of the Psalms.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Christian Witch vs. Jewitch vs Islamic witch
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 07:32:32 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;162474
Okay so apparently all the Abrahamic religions have their pagan/witchcraft friendly components, but how do they differ?


The words 'pagan' or 'witchcraft' are not used about the practices, but I guess that I understand what you mean.

The use of the suras 113 and 114 from the Quran against curses and evil spirits is probably exclusively Moslem.

Talismans depicting the abbreviation of the words 'Jesus Christ', the side wound of Christ, and the nails of Christ is exlusively Christian, and so are prayers mentioning the Blessed Virgin Mary and other Christian saints. The inaccurately named Enchiridion of Pope Leo III is a good source to this sort of Christian folk magic.

When it comes to other things, the borders between the three have been porous: Similar angel names are mentioned, similar magical squares have been used. The Hamsa amulet is used by Jews, but under the name Hand of Fatima it is used by Moslems, and under the name Hand of Mary it is used by Eastern Christians.

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