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Author Topic: Any pop culture pagans here?  (Read 7673 times)

DemeterDelusion

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2015, 04:18:16 am »
Quote from: Aubren;182817
Yeah, I could arrange to find other Gravity Falls pagans on tumblr. But if they're all using more magic than character-focus, and they're all avoiding Bill Cipher like some Heathens to Loki, then it's a little...unwelcoming.

I could still talk to them, but I'm gonna want some people who work like me in other areas.

(I'm sensing a personality trait I didn't notice until now. *Compares this with need to have protection before working with Bill*)

So it's also important to find people with different practices but similar construction. So I'd be happy to talk to another non-magic PCP who works with/honors/worships the characters, even if it's from a show that I don't know.


Interesting, that's the exact opposite problem I have with Tumblr PCP. In addition to overabundance of PCM, there's also way too much focus on individual characters instead of overall concepts or the like.

Take, for example, the White Witch and Elsa: yes, they have superficial resemblances and there's certainly inspiration to be found in comparing practices towards both, but they relate to their story and world completely differently from one another. Archetypes are important, sure, but they're not the only thing worth discussing. F'ex, the discussion about protection in PCP summoning earlier in this thread is the type of thing that's never mentioned in the PCP Tumblr community.

I'm not sure I explained myself very well here, but hey, what's life without confusion?

----

On a slight tangent, I'm honestly curious: would worshiping pop culture interpretations of mythological beings (f'ex, Marvel's Thor) be considered PCP?

Faemon

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2015, 11:05:32 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;182817
Still new to the area, and I don't recall that post. (...) It sounds like Ecauldron has groups for certain religions.

I meant this post:
Quote from: LunaStar;182467
You may want to start a group on PCP on this site.  It may help you connect with other PCP and/or spread the word about this to many who may be interested.

Which meant these groups: http://ecauldron.com/forum/group.php

But the rest of your post was still generally relevant to the thing I was saying, so no worries.
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Faemon

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2015, 11:29:22 pm »
Quote from: DemeterDelusion;182818
In addition to overabundance of PCM, there's also way too much focus on individual characters instead of overall concepts or the like. Take, for example, the White Witch and Elsa: yes, they have superficial resemblances and there's certainly inspiration to be found in comparing practices towards both, but they relate to their story and world completely differently from one another.

It sounds to me as though what you present as a problem is described as the opposite, that the overall concept of "ice queen" grows to prominence and subsumes Jadis, Elsa, the Ice Queen from the genderswapping episode of Adventure Time, Weiss Schnee from RWBY, the Snow Queen from H.C. Andersen, Rei Ayanami because why not...and that the majority of PCPs agree that it's the same new goddess by a number of different names and faces, which is like saying that the difference between Narnia and Arandelle don't matter as long as She's there (which I guess was what you meant by too much character focus?)

So I'm understanding it as sort of like

overall concept = soft polytheism in pop culture (as blurring the details)
character focus = hard polytheism in pop culture (as in focus on one character makes that character less fungible)

But what you say could also be

character focus = soft polytheism in pop culture (character serves as palette of traits springboard to everywhere else)
overall concept = hard polytheism in pop culture (character must be considered within a setting and paradigm of the source material)

Although even in interfaith discussions of established paganisms, I was confounded for a while about soft, hard, and squishy polytheism as focused on a figure in mythology (or figures throughout mythologies)...but nothing at all about soft, hard, and squishy cosmology; purpose, afterlife, metaphor, literalism, interpretations, categories, names for concepts, or lack of any of the aforementioned.

Quote
the discussion about protection in PCP summoning earlier in this thread is the type of thing that's never mentioned in the PCP Tumblr community.


If PCP were saturated with PCM then yes, I would have thought it would bear more mention. Unless there were some unspoken pre-established understanding.

Earlier, the protection and summoning was brought up as a parallel to Goetic practices. What I added was protection and summoning as a parallel to Alchemical practices...or, convergent/divergent to that but roughly parallel, in any case the procedure that I go by is demonstrated by the source material, SMT:P4 with a bit of PMMM grafted on. Anyone else can still take the same source material to the Goetic parallel instead and apply that like so, or use PMMM as the basis with cosmology and practices that are more deeply-rooted in interpretations of the source material.

Quote
I'm honestly curious: would worshiping pop culture interpretations of mythological beings (f'ex, Marvel's Thor) be considered PCP?

If the practitioner says it is so, then I'd believe them. This is a great way to articulate the differences that I'm trying to get at, actually:

Person A takes representations of Thor as in the comic books are taken as a modern version of crafting Thor to be made public symbolically, much like statuary would have been a long time ago. However, the Marvel mythology isn't adopted. If such an individual shrugs and goes, "Yeah, I'm a pop culture pagan." Then they are, even though the pop culture bit is aesthetic.

Person B reads the source material, adopts that as mythology, and considers the characters therein as heroes, with adventures and themes that demonstrate moral or philosophical values.

Person C reads the source material, adopts that as mythology, and considers the characters therein as gods, who can be prayed to or offerings made to them for intervention if not at least guidance.

Person D reads the source material, rejects the mythology, but adopts the symbolisms and embodiments of the characters in a pre-existing cosmology and paradigm that isn't a part of the pop culture source material.

So then, let's say that Person X comes into the group dedicated to PCP Thor, and goes, "I feel I have a calling to work with Marvel Thor. How do I summon him?"

A: What.
B: Read more.
C: Take a can of Guinness, set it on your altar--
D: Lightning-bolt lamen.
C: --with an acorn and play some viking metal which is like death metal but--
B: No, read more. Ignore the movies.
A: What. Summon? What...but...what?
E: Hi am Mediakin, was Thor in a past life, creators are creators not channellers, time is a mystery. What do you want from me, X?

At which point, I wonder if mediakin or otakukin are pop culture paganism, because I imagine that otherkin got chased off of paganism with a broom and so became its own thing. Still, a lot of vaguely-somewhat-probably pagan concepts carry over such as an otherworld, an otherworldly body that can be characterized, and some system of reincarnation. If -kin don't say they're more than incidentally pagan, though, let alone pop culture pagan...then they ain't.
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Aubren

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2015, 09:27:44 pm »
Quote from: DemeterDelusion;182818
Interesting, that's the exact opposite problem I have with Tumblr PCP. In addition to overabundance of PCM, there's also way too much focus on individual characters instead of overall concepts or the like.

What blogs did you follow?

Quote

Take, for example, the White Witch and Elsa: yes, they have superficial resemblances and there's certainly inspiration to be found in comparing practices towards both, but they relate to their story and world completely differently from one another. Archetypes are important, sure, but they're not the only thing worth discussing.


Faemon answered this infinitely better than I ever could as who I am right now.

And I did compare them, but I don't actually see stuff like that. Like, I haven't seen a tumblr post comparing Bill Cipher to Discord; which is VERY common on say, YouTube.

The point in my example was people with similar belief structures being connected. Elsa and The White Witch are different at heart, but since they're both Ice elementals, there will be some similarities in practices.

I think the main problem I have with PCP Tumblr is that they apply the characters magically more often than not. Either that or working with them.

I have mostly done the whole "working with" thing as well, but I have trouble communicating with any spiritual entity unless I have a designated purpose in mind.

Finding a community full of it feels...disrespectful to me. Like, can you guys just start honoring a character for once? You're fans, you do this everywhere else, why not here?

Hence my complaints over lack of variety.

Quote

 F'ex, the discussion about protection in PCP summoning earlier in this thread is the type of thing that's never mentioned in the PCP Tumblr community.


Oh, in my quest to find protection, I've found PLENTY of banishment spells. Very creative, I potentially have at least 10+ ways to banish Bill if I need to. But no protection spells outside of basic wards and stuff. Non-PCM stuff in a PCM setting.

None of which is what I wanted. (Although it's potentially helpful.)

Quote

On a slight tangent, I'm honestly curious: would worshiping pop culture interpretations of mythological beings (f'ex, Marvel's Thor) be considered PCP?


Yes.

After Loki divorced me, I had to verify which one it was I was married to. It was Norse!Loki, but he certainly enjoyed using a looks-almost like-him form to attract me and a lot of the others in his new "honorer generation".

If there was one Loki, the answer would have been "both", wouldn't it?

And if there's a Marvel!Loki, it stands to reason that there's a Marvel!Thor as well.

Since Marvel is Marvel, this means that those people are pop-culture.

Well, that's my hard polytheistic view of things, anyways.
Faemon describes this better as well.
Wazhazhe

Faemon

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2015, 12:24:39 am »
Quote from: Aubren;182951
Faemon answered this infinitely better than I ever could as who I am right now.


Oh, no! I was just reflecting back to try to clarify the terms. :) That wasn't an answer from me, just an expression of what I understood to be possible descriptors of the PCP community.

Quote
I think the main problem I have with PCP Tumblr is that they apply the characters magically more often than not. Either that or working with them. I have mostly done the whole "working with" thing as well, but I have trouble communicating with any spiritual entity unless I have a designated purpose in mind. Finding a community full of it feels...disrespectful to me. Like, can you guys just start honoring a character for once? You're fans, you do this everywhere else, why not here?


This could be an interesting observation about people's relationship with media. There's a lot more fervor around character favorites (or shipping wars) than there would be around worldbuilding, thematic unity, use of visual language where applies, or even quotable quotes.

Perhaps that carries over to models of PCP that are more focused on embodied theism rather than cosmology, values system, or applications of practice. If there is any homogenized recognition/treatment of the symbolism (within a community of symbolic indicators) then appears that it would be the recognition of a character as a "god of..."

As for uses versus devotionals, there's been a lot going around in non-popculture paganism about the gods not being vending machines, probably because there was some movement of treating gods like vending machines: make an offering to one who makes things happen to make thing happen and thing shall happen. Same problem.

*

So, what I wonder about instead after all this is...what is the individual experience? Was it from the standpoint of dabbling in Wiccish prayer-spells or Psionic thoughtform constructs or demon-catching-bossing, and the pop culture media becomes a symbolic resource that fits neatly into that pre-established worldview/practice? Or is it that the suspension of disbelief when approaching a specific story then became belief? Or is it a combination, or is it something else?

It's going to be a different perspective for everybody, but if there's a trending unspoken pre-established understanding of the thing, then we've got something there.
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DemeterDelusion

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2015, 05:50:20 am »
Quote from: Aubren;182951
What blogs did you follow?

I followed the tags more than individual blogs, actually! :) I probably wouldn't have been able to follow this thread nearly as well if I hadn't--modern cartoons really aren't my thing, but I know the basics stuff like Gravity Falls and Steven Universe thanks to their sheer popularity in tumblr PCP tags.

Technically, there were also a couple blogs I followed specifically for The Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age series, but I have no idea if they're still around and they were more like shrines to specific characters than anything else. I deleted my tumblr account, so I can't check anymore.

Quote
And I did compare them, but I don't actually see stuff like that. Like, I haven't seen a tumblr post comparing Bill Cipher to Discord; which is VERY common on say, YouTube.

-snip-

I think the main problem I have with PCP Tumblr is that they apply the characters magically more often than not. Either that or working with them.

Very true, Tumblr PCP is definitely less prone to character analysis than other places on the internet. It's actually a bit odd, seeing as Tumblr is home to *so much meta* outside of PCP.

To paraphrase a discussion I had in real life about magic earlier this year: spells are often the easiest thing to find, but the last thing anyone needs to learn. It wouldn't surprise me if many tumblr users simply find PCM easier to write, too. A good chunk of PCP on Tumblr can be boiled down to "here's a spell inspired by [character/object]" without serious discussion on how or why it works. It's fine for people that like that sort of thing, but I think it's safe to say that's what neither of us look for in PCP.

In retrospect, my first post in this thread was wrong, as there's actually a lot of PCP in my personal practice.

A good chunk of my PCP worship is based on pulp era and Golden Age science fiction, which tends to focus on incredible situations or commentary on the human condition as a whole instead of on individual character arcs. As such, I tend to correlate things like in-universe cultural concepts into my practice instead of "working with" or otherwise honoring specific characters. It's gotten to the point where I just disassociate what I do with PCP, partially because it's very dated material and partially because so much discussion and ideas within PCP are completely irreverent to my needs. Wouldn't trade it for the world, though.

That being said, I should clarify that character-based PCP isn't bad! Heck, I even do character stuff. F'ex, I was introduced to one of my biggest patrons, Nemesis, through analyzing Asimov's novel of the same name. While the book's Nemesis is a setting rather than a character, I have done rituals (and once, her festival) based on characters from within the work itself. In addition to being spiritually satisfying and helpful in expanding my relationship with Nemesis herself, it's just plain fun.    

It's all just a matter of perspective at the end of the day.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:51:35 am by DemeterDelusion »

Scales

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #81 on: November 30, 2015, 08:13:02 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;182349
I'm looking for pop-culture pagans here I can talk to.
Tumblr has the biggest community, but it seems more Pop-Culture Magic with a PCP founding. Plus, there's a "scattered" feel to it, probably due to all the online harassment.

[...]

So yeah, the atmosphere is a lot calmer here. Any teens or adults that are PCP? What media do you incorporate into your religion?

I've done more MLP than anything, but it's weird- I'm not a part of the fandom anymore, but I still feel somewhat religiously inclined to it.
I've thought about incorporating Steven Universe pcm & maybe pcp.
Most recently, I've taken serious consideration into working with a Gravity Fall's character for the sake of spiritual development.
GF fans, you get no prizes for guesses XD


I'm not exactly religious (sorry, since I know that's what you're seeing on tumblr), but I do (and think about) a lot of pop culture witchcraft, much of which is related to thoughtforms and such, which I think puts me part way between pop culture paganism and pop culture spells.

I'm currently working on some Totoro related things, and I've also been thinking SU. I've done some sigil work based off A Series of Unfortunate Events and Harry Potter.

Oh, and for reference, I'm 22.

Off to catch up on the thread.

Aubren

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2015, 02:44:54 am »
Quote from: LunaStar;182467

You may want to start a group on PCP on this site.  It may help you connect with other PCP and/or ead the word about this to many who may be interested.

 
Alrighty. I've been too busy to reply to this thread until now. Anyways, I took your advice and made a group. Since this thread is entirely about finding pop culture pagans to associate with on ecauldron, I figured it'd be appropriate to advertise the group here. http://ecauldron.com/forum/group.php?groupid=78
Wazhazhe

Pusheen

Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2017, 02:16:43 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;182349
I'm looking for pop-culture pagans here I can talk to.
Tumblr has the biggest community, but it seems more Pop-Culture Magic with a PCP founding. Plus, there's a "scattered" feel to it, probably due to all the online harassment.
And all of the "voices of reason" seem to be teenagers who act immaturely. Or rather, they try to act mature, but I don't think they're mature because I can see gaps. And I don't want to be part of a community where the people everyone turns to seem mentally younger than me- especially in a space where that's not required.

So yeah, the atmosphere is a lot calmer here. Any teens or adults that are PCP? What media do you incorporate into your religion?

I've done more MLP than anything, but it's weird- I'm not a part of the fandom anymore, but I still feel somewhat religiously inclined to it.
I've thought about incorporating Steven Universe pcm & maybe pcp.
Most recently, I've taken serious consideration into working with a Gravity Fall's character for the sake of spiritual development.
GF fans, you get no prizes for guesses XD

PCP would be amazing to explore especially with the SCP (Secure. Contain. Protect.) creepypastas and video games like the Elder Scroll series. The things that could be done is awesome... thank you for some food for thought and giving me something new to explore
Devotee of Thor and a huge nerd

DemeterDelusion

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Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2017, 06:56:52 am »
Quote from: Pusheen;205252
PCP would be amazing to explore especially with the SCP (Secure. Contain. Protect.) creepypastas and video games like the Elder Scroll series. The things that could be done is awesome... thank you for some food for thought and giving me something new to explore

 
I love everything about the idea of PCP work involving SCP creepypasta, especially the stuff that is location or object based (f'ex, 087 or 093). Given the cold and calculating nature of the Foundation itself, the stories could be a fantastic basis for meditation or grounding rituals.

... I may or may not experiment with this in the future. :whis:

Cinder

Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2017, 08:46:41 am »
Quote from: Aubren;182349
I'm looking for pop-culture pagans here I can talk to.
Tumblr has the biggest community, but it seems more Pop-Culture Magic with a PCP founding. Plus, there's a "scattered" feel to it, probably due to all the online harassment.
And all of the "voices of reason" seem to be teenagers who act immaturely. Or rather, they try to act mature, but I don't think they're mature because I can see gaps. And I don't want to be part of a community where the people everyone turns to seem mentally younger than me- especially in a space where that's not required.

So yeah, the atmosphere is a lot calmer here. Any teens or adults that are PCP? What media do you incorporate into your religion?

I've done more MLP than anything, but it's weird- I'm not a part of the fandom anymore, but I still feel somewhat religiously inclined to it.
I've thought about incorporating Steven Universe pcm & maybe pcp.
Most recently, I've taken serious consideration into working with a Gravity Fall's character for the sake of spiritual development.
GF fans, you get no prizes for guesses XD

 
I want to incorporate PCP into my spirituality, but I'm having trouble parsing exactly how. Disregarding questions of maturity, it seems pretty much impossible to find anyone on Tumblr who wants to work with or discuss any of the books I would in a PCP context. Or if there was, they deleted their blog during the harassment.

I'm 20 and I'm mainly interested in G.R.R.M's A Song of Ice and Fire (the T.V series is Game of Thrones). I have 1/4 baked (as in, not even half-baked) ideas of how I want to work with/honor Tyrion in particular. I wrote a "Game of Thrones" and Watership Down PCP post a while ago if anyone's seen it. (Probably not, it only got like 30 notes XD).

Which actually reminds me that I'm interested in PCP incorporating Watership Down . The Black Rabbit of Inle, Frith, and El Ahrairah (trickster, anyone?) in particular.

The more I think about it, the more I'd be interested exploring other things as well, though. Although I only ever see Spirited Away in PCM (and rarely, at that) I think it has some interesting things to say about identity, the natural environment, and love (and that's just off the top of my head- I'm sure there's more).

Pusheen

Re: Any pop culture pagans here?
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2017, 02:58:11 pm »
Quote from: DemeterDelusion;205286
I love everything about the idea of PCP work involving SCP creepypasta, especially the stuff that is location or object based (f'ex, 087 or 093). Given the cold and calculating nature of the Foundation itself, the stories could be a fantastic basis for meditation or grounding rituals.

... I may or may not experiment with this in the future. :whis:

Or applying the abilities of some SCPs to the craft. Honestly my first thought was incorporating 106 with corrosion of materials and applying that ability to corrode some that is holding you back or a toxic relationship.

Grounding rituals involving the Foundation is something I have never considered. You have inspired my to work some new things into my practice
Devotee of Thor and a huge nerd

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