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Author Topic: All Pagans Should Celebrate the Wheel of the Year Regardless of specific Religion?  (Read 16534 times)

Faemon

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Quote from: RandallS;67394
The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity.
But Independence Day is a secular cultural holiday of countries that were former colonies. Countries that were not memorably liberated would have no Independence Day, and the countries that were? Would celebrate Independence Day on vastly different days. I like an excuse to throw a really huge gimmicky theme party as much as the next person, but this sort of blanketing? Thanks, but no thanks. In fact, I'll take back the first thanks. No thanks. No thank you. No.

Quote from: Aine Rayne;67405
I'm with everyone else here is saying that it's an unnecessary idea at best. This sort of thinking, IMO, is like someone saying that everyone who is African-American should celebrate Kwanzaa in the spirit of being "unified". In other words, ridiculous and offensive.
I agree with that comment.
Quote from: Darkhawk;67404
Because simply existing in a non-Wiccan context is apparently (...) an attack
That is where I think this suggestion is coming from, too.
Quote from: Melamphoros;67412
Hell, the stretch it would take to force the Wheel in any belief system not native to the British Isles (or places with a similar yearly climate) would be pointless.
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Quote from: Aster Breo;67419
I don't care about creating a common pagan culture or being visible to the general public.  I care about my Goddess and the about doing the work She gives me.

 
Aster's pretty much summed up the way I feel about this issue.  To suggest that we all should celebrate Wiccan holidays is incredibly disrespectful those of us who follow other paths.  .
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Quote from: RandallS;67394
Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

 
I'm going to have to come out against it. As others have said the 'wheel' doesn't make sense for most polytheist religions, including my own. Also of concern is the required rituals. I can't imagine Kemetic rituals, for example, being anything similar to wiccan ceremonies, in either form or meaning. Thus they are different and should not be compared.

Annie Roonie

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Quote from: RandallS;67394
Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?


Doing something like this is about politics, and I don' think it's necessary or beneficial. If the general public finds it hard to nail down paganism, that's good IMO.

I realize that it might be beneficial to have some sort of unity when the spectres of the the satanic panic still loom and when so many, like myself during the work year, have to be more silent to protect jobs etc. A wide support network with a good image would be helpful to anyone in an unfortunate position.  But choosing a set of religious holidays to form that unity would be as misrepresentative as choosing a political party to rally behind to form unity.

There are other ways to do this and they are being employed and seem to be continuously developing. Festivals, cons, news networks, radio, social and podcast networks, pagan pride days, periodicals, forums like TC etc.  all can spread news and in that do breed a kind of unity that allows for wild diversity. It's unique and IMO that should be valued. And the general public has access to these already.

Jabberwocky

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Quote from: RandallS;67394

What you you think?

I have a counterproposal.  A lot of the Discordians have adopted Talk Like A Pirate Day as an official holy day.  We should raise visibility by doing that instead.  My arguments for this (extremely serious and not a laughing matter unless you're a Discordian obviously) proposal are as follows:

  • Unlike the Wheel of the Year, while Discordians have started celebrating Talk Like A Pirate Day, it is not a specifically Discordian originated holiday.
  • It is also a genuinely secular holiday, which means that we can all celebrate it in the same way as the holidays mentioned.
  • I'd hazard an educated guess that there are already more pagans and occultists who celebrate Talk Like a Pirate Day than there are those who celeberate the Wheel holidays.
  • In terms of "visability", it's far more obvious when someone is celebrating the day.  Because they're talking like a pirate.
  • It only happens once a year, so we can go all out for it.
  • Ale.


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Quote from: RandallS;67394
Long time members of TC known that any discussion of "Pagan Unity" can quickly become a major thread with a lot of "hostility" here, so I am sort of reluctant to bring this up here, but the idea is at least interesting (note: "interesting" does not necessarily mean "good").

I received feedback on our web site asking me why we do not stress the Wheel of the Year more as while the wheel is a property of Wicca and Wicca-like religions more than Pagan religions in general, the public tends so associate the Wheel of the Year with Paganism. The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.


Buddhists, Hindus, and those of the Shinto faith are all pagans.  Should they celebrate something that has nothing to do with their histdry or path because of someone's desperate wish to make everyone be The Same?

I say POO.  And also POO.
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sailor

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Quote from: RandallS;67394
just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity. Doing so would give Pagans more of a common culture and would be more visible to the general public than each group only doing their religion's own thing.

What you you think?

I'm very skeptical, but I figured it would make a good discussion.

 
Do Christians actually celebrate these secular holidays or is it a mention during the regular Sunday service, a focus for that regular Sunday sermon and maybe a cook out / social event since most have a 3 day weekend?

Aine Rayne

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Quote from: NibbleKat;67427
Buddhists, Hindus, and those of the Shinto faith are all pagans.  Should they celebrate something that has nothing to do with their histdry or path because of someone's desperate wish to make everyone be The Same?

I say POO.  And also POO.

 
I have to point out that AFAIK, most Buddhists and Hindus do not identify as pagan. YMMV, but from what I know of the world at large most of them don't appreciate being labelled as pagan. Or at least Hindus don't. Once again, this is as far as I am aware.
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sailor

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Quote from: RandallS;67394
The author of this note believes that all Pagans should celebrate the eight Wheel holidays in some way even if they are not a part of their specific Pagan path -- just as many Christians celebrate secular cultural holidays like Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc. religiously even though they are not truly holy days in Christianity.

 
Uh, if you follow those lines of thinking, shouldn't pagans be celebrating their countries secular holidays in formats that fit their type of worship format?  Rather than using a Wiccanoid circle casting for July 4th, American Hellenic pagans would use a Hellenic format to celebrate July 4th?

Aine Rayne

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Quote from: sailor;67430
Do Christians actually celebrate these secular holidays or is it a mention during the regular Sunday service, a focus for that regular Sunday sermon and maybe a cook out / social event since most have a 3 day weekend?

 
No. I've no idea where the person in question who said this to Randall got that from, but they aren't celebrated religiously. Not like Easter or Christmas, which are actually considered holy days. Thanksgiving is often a jump off point for sermons and such, but it's not any more a religious holiday for Christians in general than for atheists, pagans or irreligious people. I don't think I've ever heard Independence Day or Memorial Day brought up in church as something akin to special to God. Although, my family's church does go out of its way to thank Active Duty and Veteran military people in the congregation around Memorial Day. That sort of service is used to jump start a sermon, but the day itself isn't the point.
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NibbleKat

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Quote from: Aine Rayne;67433
I have to point out that AFAIK, most Buddhists and Hindus do not identify as pagan. YMMV, but from what I know of the world at large most of them don't appreciate being labelled as pagan. Or at least Hindus don't. Once again, this is as far as I am aware.

 
It was my understanding that any faith that does not include the Abrahmic god is pagan.  i have never actually spoken with anyone of the Hindu faith to ask them their opinion, however.

On a different note, as mentioned above by others in a similar light, the deities I follow have nothing to do with the wheel.
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Aine Rayne

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Quote from: NibbleKat;67437
It was my understanding that any faith that does not include the Abrahmic god is pagan.  i have never actually spoken with anyone of the Hindu faith to ask them their opinion, however.

On a different note, as mentioned above by others in a similar light, the deities I follow have nothing to do with the wheel.

 
Well that is the catch all definition of "pagan", so technically speaking they are pagan, but I would imagine that if a person doesn't want to be identified that way the definition becomes void ya know? And as far as deities being related to the Wheel, mine aren't related either lol
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Aster Breo

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Quote from: NibbleKat;67437
It was my understanding that any faith that does not include the Abrahmic god is pagan.  i have never actually spoken with anyone of the Hindu faith to ask them their opinion, however.


The definition of "pagan" that we use here at TC is:  someone who is not a member of a JCI (Jewish, Christian, Islamic) religion ANDwho self-identifies as pagan.

We've used that definition for many years, largely to avoid characterizing people as pagans who would not use that label themselves.  It's the best definition we've ever been able to come up with as a community that does not exclude people who consider themselves pagan or include people who don't.
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Melamphoros

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Quote from: NibbleKat;67437
It was my understanding that any faith that does not include the Abrahmic god is pagan.  i have never actually spoken with anyone of the Hindu faith to ask them their opinion, however.

On a different note, as mentioned above by others in a similar light, the deities I follow have nothing to do with the wheel.

 
In addition to what Aster said, Hindus do not like being called pagan because that's the word the Western Imperialists used to discredit their religious beliefs.  I think it's also pretty similar for other cultures with the same experience.


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Quote from: Melamphoros;67412
Hell, the stretch it would take to force the Wheel in any belief system not native to the British Isles (or places with a similar yearly climate) would be pointless.


You... could... remove a couple of spokes, and re-name others according to other localities and customs... it would be A Wheel, but not THE Wheel.  
But why put in that effort if you can find a more culturally appropriate symbol for the same thing.
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