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Author Topic: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo  (Read 1489 times)

Castus

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Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« on: February 02, 2019, 01:55:42 pm »
Quote
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) saw his support within the commonwealth wither Friday night with mounting calls from members of his own party for him to resign after he admitted to appearing in a racist picture from medical school.
Members of Virginia’s congressional delegation began calling Northam on Friday night and privately urged him to resign, a source familiar with the calls told The Hill. Various national Democratic officials also publicly called for him to step down.

https://apple.news/APnUfpyaESuKd6Cab_E-FHQ

Jacques Mallet du Pan famously observed that 'like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children' and here's another story to file under 'devoured revolutionary'. After a medical school yearbook photo of Governor Northam wearing blackface next to a fake Klansman emerged the Governor apologised and resisted calls to step down, but after Virginia Democrats abandoned him en masse it looks like he now has no choice.

It will surprise none of you to know that I didn't support Northam or any Democratic candidate in our last election, but I still feel terrible for the poor man. Being forced out of American politics -- resigning from a governorship, no less --  over a stupid photo you were in in college is hardly just; especially after he had already engaged in the sackcloth-and-ashes flagellation expected of his particular brand of offense.

This is an occurrence that I can't help but think will be repeated over and over again in the coming years. The Revolution spawned many children and more than a few of them are due for a reckoning with it; damned by whatever sin against liberal orthodoxy they committed decades ago. It is extremely bittersweet.

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 02:46:45 pm »
This is an occurrence that I can't help but think will be repeated over and over again in the coming years. The Revolution spawned many children and more than a few of them are due for a reckoning with it; damned by whatever sin against liberal orthodoxy they committed decades ago. It is extremely bittersweet.

You are saying that acting like a racist in 1984 is okay? (I would be more willing to let it go if this picture was from the 1960s or before.) However, by 1984, racism was well known to be unacceptable behavior. If you are saying "Not being a racist is a liberal position", do you mean conservatives are okay with people being racists?  If so, there is something wrong with modern conservatism.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 02:58:06 pm »
The Revolution spawned many children and more than a few of them are due for a reckoning with it; damned by whatever sin against liberal orthodoxy they committed decades ago. It is extremely bittersweet.

Of course... because there's nothing wrong with wearing blackface and endorsing the KKK. It's not like they killed thousands of African Americans in the 20th century, and terrorized millions more with their acts of public violence.

Yep, it's a totally acceptable subject for college humor, just like the Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Armenian genocide, and Taliban, ISIS, and everything else! Silly liberals, murder is funny!

...

I appologize for the sarcasm Castus, but I just don't understand why you think this is OK.

Gov. Northam is a white man, from a state with a looong history of racial violence, and he decided (at a time when racism was still quite prevalent; in the early 1980s!) to make light of that violence. Dressing that way, at that time, as a  Virginian, is a direct endorsement of the KKK and their actions.

And no, I don't think the fact he was in college makes it OK; in fact, that makes it worse, since being admitted to college means he already had a basic education, and should've known better. He wasn't a child when he did this, he was a grown-ass man, studying at an institution of higher learning.

If he'd done it as an ignorant kid, in some backwoods highschool in the 1960s, it would be an entirely different story, but that's not what happened. He knew better, and did it anyway.

Why do you want such a person to hold the governorship of Virginia? Would you want Germany to be lead by someone who dressed as a Nazi in college?
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 05:13:42 pm »
And no, I don't think the fact he was in college makes it OK; in fact, that makes it worse, since being admitted to college means he already had a basic education, and should've known better. He wasn't a child when he did this, he was a grown-ass man, studying at an institution of higher learning.

Yeah, no. The brain is still actually developing in your 20s, possibly up to your 30s. Someone in their 20s in college can't be said to be a "grown-ass man" or to automatically know better.

Adolescence actually continues past 18.

If he'd done it as an ignorant kid, in some backwoods highschool in the 1960s, it would be an entirely different story, but that's not what happened. He knew better, and did it anyway.

So it would have been fine if he were 17 but suddenly over the age of 18 he's supposed to have the wisdom and maturity to know better? I guess a magic fairy just comes in and waves a wand over people's heads when they turn 18 to make them suddenly adults. ::)

I'm not saying what he did was right -- it most emphatically was not -- but let's not forget that college is the home of Stupid Decisions, Inc, and that he did apologize for it.

(It's also the home of Transgressive Decisions, Inc. Because, you know, continuing adolescence. Transgressing acceptable social norms is part of that whole process.)

I think the point Castus is making is that it doesn't matter what people apologize for, no matter how big or small the sin is, in the current liberal culture -- they'll be eaten alive for it. The left is eating its own & letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And Castus is right in that case. We can see it with potential presidential candidates who made homophobic remarks back in 2004 -- they've apologized and changed their views, and even backed pro-LGBTQ legislation, but it's not good enough.

15 years ago Gabbard was 22 and her father was a Republican politician. Same-sex marriage in Hawaii had been a hot-button issue for a while -- I lived through those years. The state was pretty divided (and same-sex marriage didn't become legal until 2013).

She's since changed her political views. (Personally I don't give a crap about someone's personal views if they're not pushing them in their politics, and it's clear she's no longer doing that.) But because she said shitty things 15 years ago -- when it was very common to do so in Hawaii about that issue -- she's now considered impure forever.

If you're on the left, whatever you did in the past will haunt you until death. No apology will ever be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough, because purity culture has taken over the left and it will continue to destroy it until nothing remains.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 08:03:51 pm »
If you're on the left, whatever you did in the past will haunt you until death. No apology will ever be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough, because purity culture has taken over the left and it will continue to destroy it until nothing remains.

And I'm tempted to say, "Good." There are many ways in which they're right, and on the right side of history, but jeez, sometimes the messenger is too toxic and strident. Not to mention, it was the purity policing and total disunity that pretty much put Trump in office.

Speaking of that shitbird. WTF is US conservatism going to look like when he's done. Interesting times.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 08:20:26 pm »
Yeah, no. The brain is still actually developing in your 20s, possibly up to your 30s. Someone in their 20s in college can't be said to be a "grown-ass man" or to automatically know better.

Adolescence actually continues past 18.

So it would have been fine if he were 17 but suddenly over the age of 18 he's supposed to have the wisdom and maturity to know better? I guess a magic fairy just comes in and waves a wand over people's heads when they turn 18 to make them suddenly adults. ::)

I'm not saying what he did was right -- it most emphatically was not -- but let's not forget that college is the home of Stupid Decisions, Inc, and that he did apologize for it.

(It's also the home of Transgressive Decisions, Inc. Because, you know, continuing adolescence. Transgressing acceptable social norms is part of that whole process.)

I think the point Castus is making is that it doesn't matter what people apologize for, no matter how big or small the sin is, in the current liberal culture -- they'll be eaten alive for it. The left is eating its own & letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And Castus is right in that case. We can see it with potential presidential candidates who made homophobic remarks back in 2004 -- they've apologized and changed their views, and even backed pro-LGBTQ legislation, but it's not good enough.

15 years ago Gabbard was 22 and her father was a Republican politician. Same-sex marriage in Hawaii had been a hot-button issue for a while -- I lived through those years. The state was pretty divided (and same-sex marriage didn't become legal until 2013).

She's since changed her political views. (Personally I don't give a crap about someone's personal views if they're not pushing them in their politics, and it's clear she's no longer doing that.) But because she said shitty things 15 years ago -- when it was very common to do so in Hawaii about that issue -- she's now considered impure forever.

If you're on the left, whatever you did in the past will haunt you until death. No apology will ever be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough, because purity culture has taken over the left and it will continue to destroy it until nothing remains.

I suppose in this case I'd take a look at his voting record and go by that regardless of youthful infractions, but I still think he was old enough to know better even if his brain was in adolescence.

I was raised in a family and culture saturated in racism, but I knew that crap was awful from the first time I knew what racial slurs meant.  I was naive, but I admit I was shocked that my fellow Christians were so racist.  I thought that given Christian values they would be an exception to the culture around us, but most were not.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 08:52:06 pm »
This is an occurrence that I can't help but think will be repeated over and over again in the coming years.

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2019, 09:06:11 pm »
I think the point Castus is making is that it doesn't matter what people apologize for, no matter how big or small the sin is, in the current liberal culture -- they'll be eaten alive for it. The left is eating its own & letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And Castus is right in that case. We can see it with potential presidential candidates who made homophobic remarks back in 2004 -- they've apologized and changed their views, and even backed pro-LGBTQ legislation, but it's not good enough.

15 years ago Gabbard was 22 and her father was a Republican politician. Same-sex marriage in Hawaii had been a hot-button issue for a while -- I lived through those years. The state was pretty divided (and same-sex marriage didn't become legal until 2013).

She's since changed her political views. (Personally I don't give a crap about someone's personal views if they're not pushing them in their politics, and it's clear she's no longer doing that.) But because she said shitty things 15 years ago -- when it was very common to do so in Hawaii about that issue -- she's now considered impure forever.

If you're on the left, whatever you did in the past will haunt you until death. No apology will ever be good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough, because purity culture has taken over the left and it will continue to destroy it until nothing remains.

Sorry, Morag, but that's an overstatement.

Everyone I know in the LGBTQ community raises their eyebrow at Tulsi Gabbard's past but is willing to take her at her word that her views have evolved. That doesn't mean that she's the best candidate for president, and from what I hear, she's got plenty of problems in her campaign besides her anti-gay past.

More broadly, what I see is a left that is consistent in its application of its standards. We've seen the right on innumerable occasions ignore the most grievous disqualifying failings in the past of its darlings (um, Trump, much?) so those darlings can stay in power. If we on the left behaved the same way, you can bet certain folks on the right, including in this forum, would be the first to shriek about what hypocrites we are.
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The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2019, 10:50:32 pm »
And I'm tempted to say, "Good." There are many ways in which they're right, and on the right side of history, but jeez, sometimes the messenger is too toxic and strident. Not to mention, it was the purity policing and total disunity that pretty much put Trump in office.

Speaking of that shitbird. WTF is US conservatism going to look like when he's done. Interesting times.

I thought Trump was put in office by a shambolic system created for an age that no longer exists.

It always confuses me when people, be they left or right, chalk the Trump 'victory' up to disunity on the left (as though Trump's campaign wasn't also divisive). Yet Hillary won the popular vote by a considerable margin, and she was arguably the least popular of the democratic candidates. It seems to me that people like democrats and democratic values fine.

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 12:12:57 am »
I thought Trump was put in office by a shambolic system created for an age that no longer exists.

It always confuses me when people, be they left or right, chalk the Trump 'victory' up to disunity on the left (as though Trump's campaign wasn't also divisive). Yet Hillary won the popular vote by a considerable margin, and she was arguably the least popular of the democratic candidates. It seems to me that people like democrats and democratic values fine.



I dunno. I remember Trump pretty much steamrolling the competition. The GOP had no choice but to unite behind him.

On the other hand, I remember the Dems being pretty divided, what with the progressive purists splitting for Bernie and Stein; Bernie fans were particularly incensed after the primary. In liberal spaces, Hillary was derided as "corporatist", "neocon", "in bed with the banks", etc. I remember seeing this comment often: "I'd love a woman president, just not that woman." (And that was coming from progressive women.) And if you were a male Bernie fan and you dared to critique her, you were a misogynist. I'd mention something, here, about the left eating their own, but Morag already did.

Re: the popular vote, yes Hillary won, but it's the EC that matters, and Trump's EC victory really came down to about 80K votes spread across MI, WI, and PA. But though he won popularly in those Democratic strongholds, he did not win bigly. His 3-state total was about 1.16 million less than Obama's in 2008. What's that mean? About 1.16M Democrats stayed home.
That's not very unified. If just 10% of those people had gotten out, we'd be in a much different country right now.
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EnderDragonFire

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 02:48:30 am »
Yeah, no. The brain is still actually developing in your 20s, possibly up to your 30s. Someone in their 20s in college can't be said to be a "grown-ass man" or to automatically know better.

Adolescence actually continues past 18.

Forgive me, but I don't see why that matters. Sure, his brain was still developing... so what?

There's a reason that people are treated differently at different ages in their life. Once your brain has developed sufficiently, society expects you to be accountable for your own actions.

Even someone as young as 16 might be treated as an adult in cases of serious violent crime, for example; at the age of 18 you are considered an adult capable of voting in most states' elections; at the age of 21, you are considered capable of handling alcohol consumption.

In our society, a college age person is expected to behave in a mature, intelligent, and respectful manner. We allow people of that age to have children, use legal intoxicants, get married, take out loans, drive and own vehicles, own real estate, own firearms and serve in the military, and to decide their own medical, ethical, and dietary practices.

If you really think that college age people should be treated differently, in terms of the legal and moral ramifications of their actions, than older adults, that has far reaching implications for our society. We would need to re-write our entire legal system and reconstruct our entire social philosophy...

...or not. I personally think we should judge to Gov. Northam's actions the same way we judge every other action taken by college-age people; that is, as an action taken willingly and knowingly by an equal and free adult citizen of out republic, who has all the rights, and responsibilities, that comes with that status.

I don't think we need to start treating college age people like children. If anything, I think we should lower the age of legal emancipation, and grant full rights to younger people.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2019, 10:06:42 am »
If you really think that college age people should be treated differently, in terms of the legal and moral ramifications of their actions, than older adults, that has far reaching implications for our society.

Indeed. That attitude has allowed generations of college-age males to get away with sexual abuse and rape, on the theory that "boys will be boys."

Also, that attitude tends to be applied selectively. If you're a white person of that age, you're much more likely to get a "youthful hijinks" pass than a black or Latino person of the same age...and if you're a star athlete, you're more likely to get that pass than the average Joe. All of which makes that pass suspect in my eyes.

Am I saying every youthful indiscretion should carry the same weight? Of course not. Offhand I can think of at least two fumbles in my college years, and in retrospect, I wish I hadn't gone there. But neither of them involved monumentally racist sentiments or sexual molestation. So let's shine that spotlight on the past, on Republicans and Democrats alike. One of the silver linings of the Trump era is that the filth deep in our society is being drawn out into the open. It's long overdue that it be revealed for all to see for what it is.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2019, 02:41:11 pm »
And no, I don't think the fact he was in college makes it OK; in fact, that makes it worse, since being admitted to college means he already had a basic education, and should've known better. He wasn't a child when he did this, he was a grown-ass man, studying at an institution of higher learning.

I have seen a number of people note that this wasn't just 'in college', this was medical school, and placing it in context of the way Black people have massive difficulties getting access to basic medical care and have wildly disparate outcomes because of dehumanization.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 05:46:29 pm »
I have seen a number of people note that this wasn't just 'in college', this was medical school,

Ah, I didn't see that he was in medical school, not just college. That does change my view in this particular case.
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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2019, 05:48:18 pm »
If you really think that college age people should be treated differently, in terms of the legal and moral ramifications of their actions, than older adults, that has far reaching implications for our society. We would need to re-write our entire legal system and reconstruct our entire social philosophy...

Not actually what I said.

You said that being in college made him a "grown-ass man". I pointed out that it did not. (Now that I see it was medical school, not college, I do retract that in the case of this particular person.)

I never said anything about changing legal ramifications, and to say that I did is putting words in my mouth.

When it comes to moral ramifications, or treating people in college differently, I'm not talking about a total overhaul. I'm just talking about maybe adding a little nuance to the process.

But I was a transphobe in my early 20s, so I'm obviously Impure and not to be trusted.
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Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall