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Author Topic: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.  (Read 5421 times)

MadZealot

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 05:07:42 am »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;65573
That does say much about you.

Whoa, let's rein that in.  We can discuss without making personal jabs.

Apologies to the mods.  I don't want to step on yer toes, but I figure you're probably asleep.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:13:42 am by MadZealot »
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 05:11:13 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;65572
Really trying to understand this POV.


Me too. Or I was and then got angry. Now I am back to confused.

Maybe there is a step back we take from these things that blurs our vision and allows us to be less compassionate. Like how grief fades, but then can be brought back with a thought.

SkySamuelle

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 05:11:42 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65571

She is not as guilty as the males who took advantage of that situation but she's not innocent of it either in my opinon.

 
She was drunk and molested and filmed during the molesting, and the perpetrators admitted culpability so they could get a lighter sentence yet she is somewhat guilty as well for the hassault ? WOW, it does make perfect sense ... for the average  victim blaming scenario.

I personally think the girl is admirable, even if she stepped out of the legal boundaries. For someone who was assaulted, being asked to protect the reputation of her aggressors by keeping silence must be icing on the cake - I cannot condamn her anger and indignation or the way she acted on them.

Rather, I recognize I takes a lot of strenght and bravery to stand up to both the system and the pain she must be experiencing now.
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 05:12:10 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;65574
Whoa, let's rein that in.  We can discuss without making personal jabs.

Apologies to the mods.  I don't want to step on yer toes.


I totally deserved that. I let my emotions get the best of me there.

MadZealot

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2012, 05:16:48 am »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;65578
I totally deserved that. I let my emotions get the best of me there.

 
This kind of thing hits some of us closer than it hits others.  
Because of that some are more able to remain objective.  But objective does not necessarily mean non-empathetic.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2012, 05:56:33 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;65572
To be fair, I am too.
If she's guilty of anything, she's guilty of being a pretty girl and of possessing an allure that drives dipshit teenage boys to villainy.  Although teenage boys are hardons with feet and need little-to-no reason to do anything stupid.  
I don't think "she was too drunk" is a valid defence.
I don't think "her skirt was too short and she was wearing a thong" is a valid defence.  
What part of this makes her "not innocent of it either in my opinon."  Really trying to understand this POV.


I'm not attacking a 17 year old.  I'm looking at a few things

1.  There is a plea bargin of which no public knowledge has been presented.

1a. Because of the plea bargin she is putting forth the argument that the court protects the rapist and refuses justice for the victim.  Yet we again do not know the specifics of the plea bargin, what was offered nor even the capacity of the prosecutor to even get a conviction if it went to court.  

1b We really do not know what she thinks is a valid punishment for this crime but must assume it is far higher than she thinks will actually be administered.  Her intent seems to be to force the courts hand and bring in public support via sympothy on her side.  Especially given the actions taken after she discovered the plea bargin.  Yet those same actions seem to imply that she thinks the plea bargin does not do her justice yet it is not up to her to decide legally what venue justice shall take.

2.  The two boys are minors themselves which gives rise to the notion they are also entitled to protection of their identites based upon age.  The girl herself was entitled to the same protections by the law.  As far as we know her identity revealed only because she so revealed it herself.

3.  She's making accusations of what shall be done or not be done yet the two boys have not been sentenanced.  Without the sentenace we do not know what the specifics of the charges against them are nor what they are being charged with specifically.

3a.  Since the boys have not been sentenaced we do not know what specifics are being used for the charges.  There are multiple levels beneath the general charge heading used.  Without knowing the specific degree's of the charge one can not determine if her arguments are fair and accurate.

3b.  Her implied assumptions of what shall or shall not happen at court when they are sentenaced is guess work at best.  I think it safe to say the judge didn't say at the plea hearing what the sentenace shall be.  Perhaps what the defense may have asked for but what they ask for doesn't mean its what the judge shall award.  Yet her position could also be seen as trying to influence the court and its decession by making such acqusations before it is even presented for sentenancing.

4. We can not say if the court orderd her not to speak about what happened to her.  All we can see from the article is she was told not to reveal the names of the two boys.  Holding the identity of the two does nothing to remove her right to speak upon what happened to her.  It does not prevent her from discussing what occured prior to it, potentially during it nor after it when the boys were showing it around or the results upon her life and character.
 
5. I'm not presenting the argument she was to drunk I'm saying her being drunk and not incontrol of her body and person is the issue.  To state she didn't know how much alcohol she could take in before passing out is bs.  No one forced her to drink.  No one forced her to drink more than she could handle or caused her to become so drunk she passed out.  That is all personal accountability and responsibility of her own actions and the results of those actions.

In that capacity of her own responsibility and accountability for her actions she is not innocent for it was done willingly on her part from appearance.  Her own actions placed her in that postion to be exploited and render her incapable of protecting herself or watching out for herself.  Her own actions made her vulnerable to be exploited and placed her in the position to allow it.

She couldn't concent to the action due to being drunk and not in control, yet she equally couldn't say she denied it and had full capicity of her faculaties to do so.  Having not seen the footage there is no other conclusion that can be arrived at in my opinion.  It is probable the two boys did take advantage of her condition and exploited that, but without knowing what was recorded we must assume what happened.

I'm not saying had she appeared to give concept in her state that it should change the charges against them.  I do not personaly believe she would have been in control enough to make such a permission.  But it can not be denied her own actions got her in that position.

My perspective of this was probably planted years ago when I sat down with an older woman and she went into detail about her mindset after being raped.  To her it was years before she could listen to or look at a rape case or sexaul abuse case and see what the victim was saying.  In every instance she projected her own case and emotions upon the issues at hand and viewed it all through that lense.

The woman was always innocent for she had been innocent.  The man or men were always guilty for her attacker was guilty and that is who she saw everytime it came up.  The truth of the situation was always perceived in how it layed over her own situation and experience.  Many times she convicted the accussed even before the trial and sentenacing for it allowed her to convict her own tormentor.  A certain sense of satisfaction is what she said until it finally occured to her she was never convicting or listening to the evidence of the trail only what she remember of her attack and seeing it played out over and over.

She told me never listen to just the woman's voice but look to see what the charges are and how things are filed.  Never assume that the woman who screams the loudest before the press is being truthful for the press is a powerful ally on her side.  She was pretty adamit about not listening when accusations were flying about what was or was not going to happen, especially when it had not been decided nor handed down yet.

That's what I trully see here.  No sentenance yet the girl is claiming that the rapist will not be prosecuted nor justice served for the victim.  Her course of action serves to place her in the point of public sympthony and gain the attention of the media for her claims.  Even her challenge of come arrest me serves to garner public support for her position of the abused girl who was sold out by some plea bargin.  It serves to force the court and legal system to dare and arrest her against public outcry.

But on this site I am sad to say I think all that will be heard or seen is the fact of her claiming she is the victim. That no sentenace has been passed down yet thus no ability to say if the court is really prosecuting them to the fullest or not.  No knowledge of what they were charged with specifically only that they pled guilty to some charge.  All emotional charged about her claim not what hasn't even actually occured yet or what she actually may have been told or ordered to do as they court hasn't replied to that yet either.

Yet I am so reminded of what that old lady said about projecting her own case over things vice actually looking and seeing what is there or waiting truth and justice to be delivered.

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2012, 06:49:24 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65571

Until the charges are read and the sentenace filed we do not know what they are being charged with.  


Charges are read before the trail starts, and when it starts if desired.
Quote


We don't know if they have or will its all assumption that they shall.  Not even sure one could say it gets easier as much as it takes more to reach the same level of elation.  Serial _____'s tend to increase because it takes more not because it gets easier.


Abuse gets easier the more times it is done.

Quote


Yet we are still trying to determine what level of guilt and guilty of what.  


 "On June 26, the boys pleaded guilty to first-degree sexual abuse and misdemeanor voyeurism. Terms of their plea agreement were not released." retrieved from: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/savannah-dietrich-twitter-sexual-assault-louisville-174732753.html (near the middle of the article).

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monsnoleedra

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2012, 07:00:41 am »
Quote from: mlr52;65587
Charges are read before the trail starts, and when it starts if desired.


Initial charges yes.  Once the plea bargin and acceptance they were probaly changed.


Quote
Abuse gets easier the more times it is done.


The ability to see potential abuse also becomes easier for those who wish to see it.

Quote
"On June 26, the boys pleaded guilty to first-degree sexual abuse and misdemeanor voyeurism. Terms of their plea agreement were not released." retrieved from: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/savannah-dietrich-twitter-sexual-assault-louisville-174732753.html (near the middle of the article).


First degree sexual abuse has a number of componet parts contained within it that define what specific part is being used.  Until the sentenace is entered we do not know which sub paragraph is being used.

Quote
The following are Kentucky statutes:

 Section 1. KRS 510.110 :

(1) A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when:

 (a) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact by forcible compulsion; or

 (b) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact who is incapable of consent because he or she:

1. Is physically helpless;

2. Is less than twelve (12) years old; or

3. Is mentally incapacitated; or

 (c) Being twenty-one (21) years old or more, he or she:

 1. Subjects another person who is less than sixteen (16) years old to sexual contact; or

 2. Engages in masturbation in the presence of another person who is less than sixteen (16) years old and knows or has reason to know the other person is present; or

 3. Engages in masturbation while using the Internet, telephone, or other electronic communication device while communicating with a minor who the person knows is less than sixteen (16) years old, and the minor can see or hear the person masturbate; or

 (d) Being a person in a position of authority or position of special trust, as defined in KRS 532.045, he or she, regardless of his or her age, subjects a minor who is less than eighteen (18) years old, with whom he or she comes into contact as a result of that position, to sexual contact or engages in masturbation in the presence of the minor and knows or has reason to know the minor is present or engages in masturbation while using the Internet, telephone, or other electronic communication device while communicating with a minor who the person knows is less than sixteen (16) years old, and the minor can see or hear the person masturbate.

(2) Sexual abuse in the first degree is a Class D felony, unless the victim is less than twelve (12) years old, in which case the offense shall be a Class C felony.

532.060. Sentence of imprisonment for felony.

http://answers.uslegal.com/criminal/15262/

SkySamuelle

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2012, 07:04:07 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65584

Yet I am so reminded of what that old lady said about projecting her own case over things vice actually looking and seeing what is there or waiting truth and justice to be delivered.

 
I am genuinely confused: are you saying that other posters here are projecting potential/assumed personal experience on this case or that the girl of the article is seeing her attempted rapists like through the lens of her abuse?

Quote from: monsnoleedra;65584


But on this site I am sad to say I think all that will be heard or seen is the fact of her claiming she is the victim. That no sentenace has been passed down yet thus no ability to say if the court is really prosecuting them to the fullest or not.  No knowledge of what they were charged with specifically only that they pled guilty to some charge.  All emotional charged about her claim not what hasn't even actually occured yet or what she actually may have been told or ordered to do as they court hasn't replied to that yet either.

Yet I am so reminded of what that old lady said about projecting her own case over things vice actually looking and seeing what is there or waiting truth and justice to be delivered.

 
From the original article:  
Quote
On June 26, the boys pleaded guilty to first-degree sexual abuse and misdemeanor voyeurism. Terms of their plea agreement were not released.


So I am not sure why you think there are doubts to what is happened or that truth is still waiting to be investigated. It's rather clearly stated as de-facto. And the punishment, whatever it is and regardless of its real or perceived adequacy, seems to have already been assigned by the justice system even it was not made public.
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Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2012, 07:07:33 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65584


My perspective of this was probably planted years ago when I sat down with an older woman and she went into detail about her mindset after being raped.


My, you certainly know a lot of people.  It is just wonderful how you always manage to reference a personal source to endorse every thing you decide to say.  So convenient.

But then, given the nature of this board, we are no more inclined to call an apologist a liar than we are to call a victim one.

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2012, 07:11:18 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;65574
Whoa, let's rein that in.  We can discuss without making personal jabs.

Apologies to the mods.  I don't want to step on yer toes, but I figure you're probably asleep.

 
AS MOD -

Yeah, things got a little heated, but that looks more like a friendly reminder than anything else.  I don't think there's any need to post a formal warning to anyone here.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2012, 07:12:48 am »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;65594
My, you certainly know a lot of people.  It is just wonderful how you always manage to reference a personal source to endorse every thing you decide to say.  So convenient.

But then, given the nature of this board, we are no more inclined to call an apologist a liar than we are to call a victim one.

Absent


Yeah its called life experience.  It's called traveling the world for 23 years.  It's called being in my 50's and starting my training when I was abt 6 years old.  But isn't interesting how you always manage to attack someone who disagree's with you?

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2012, 07:16:24 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65590


 
The point of the matter is, she was bound by a court decision she would never have agreed to and had no voice in making.

As far as her identity being public, the boys did that when they filmed and showed the assault.  HER identity was already compromised, and she's a minor.  Why CAN'T she say what happened to her?

You've got a lot of words, but I'm not seeing anything other than "boys have rights toooooo!".  And sure, they do.  But the girl was the one wronged here - once by those boys, in a horrific way.  and AGAIN by the court for saying she had to be silent about what happened.

Rape is WRONG.  This is the core that needs to be understood.  It is WRONG.  Every time, every place, every circumstance.  We have a right to NOT be violated.

No amount of apologia changes that.  It just makes it sicker.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2012, 07:17:06 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;65597
But isn't interesting how you always manage to attack someone who disagree's with you?

I haven't actually expressed an opinion in this thread.  You are assuming that I disagree with you, when it could simply be that I think you are trying to pad your position because people keep questioning it.  I can't remember whether such testimonials come under 'appeal to authority' or something else, but I do know it's generally considered a weak move in a debate.

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« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:19:27 am by Marilyn/Absentminded »
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Teen sex-assault victim could face contempt, jail time.
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2012, 07:52:52 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;65598
The point of the matter is, she was bound by a court decision she would never have agreed to and had no voice in making.

As far as her identity being public, the boys did that when they filmed and showed the assault.  HER identity was already compromised, and she's a minor.  Why CAN'T she say what happened to her?

You've got a lot of words, but I'm not seeing anything other than "boys have rights toooooo!".  And sure, they do.  But the girl was the one wronged here - once by those boys, in a horrific way.  and AGAIN by the court for saying she had to be silent about what happened.

Rape is WRONG.  This is the core that needs to be understood.  It is WRONG.  Every time, every place, every circumstance.  We have a right to NOT be violated.

No amount of apologia changes that.  It just makes it sicker.


Sorry by the article I don't see where the court silenced her about what happened, only about speaking the names.  She could still present her side of things and what happened and leave the names out.  If its that big of a story in the area the names are probably already known to most people.  We all get bound to various court orders that we may not agree with. Except in this situation we do not even know beyond not speaking thier names what she is order to do.

Quote
--violating a court order to keep their names confidential.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/savannah-dietrich-twitter-sexual-assault-louisville-174732753.html

Though I'll glady appologize if you can show me something from the court or offical document saying she couldn't speak about it.  But the referenced line doesn't appear to support she couldn't speak on it only that she couldn't name them.

All I truly see is a 17 year old girl who is upset that a plea bargin was made and she doesn't like it.  She's speculating on what punishment the two boys will receive and projecting what she thinks it will be even though no such action has taken place nor even been presented yet as to what it shall entail.

Most of the argument being presented here based upon an action that has not occured yet as to what it will mean to her.  An argument painted against the emotional presception of "Rape" not what the court will actually decide to do against them or the punishment it shall hand down.

To me it simply comes across as a If I can't have it my way I'm going to throw a temper tantrum until I get it.  In that regard its not about justice its about her desire and what she thinks is right.  Not the pursuit of justice or what the legal system can prove in her behalf.

Now I admit if it was a couple of weeks down the road and the sentance was delivered and she could show where she got shafted then I'd be more sympathetic to her cause.  But right now I simply see the story of Peter and the Wolf unfolding and her presumption of what is going to happen is the wolf, the media simply the townsfolk running out as she cries foul against her imagined wolf and coming to her implied need.

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