collapse

Author Topic: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"  (Read 3556 times)

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • Posts: 2841
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 270
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« on: September 20, 2011, 02:43:35 pm »
Since nobody seems to have started a thread on this yet (or did I miss it?), let me be the first to say:

Good riddance.

Today's the day that that misbegotten 1993 "compromise," which forced American service members to keep their identities under wraps if they're gay, lebian, or bisexual if they wanted to keep their jobs, falls into the dustheap of history, alongside Jim Crow. It drags down with it the sullied reputations of those who orchestrated it, such as then U.S. Senator Sam Nunn and then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell. The latter deserves special ignominy as a black man who knowingly inflicted the same kind of harm on others that our own African American people had been subjected to in the U.S. military's past.

As for the heroes in this, these two links put it nicely. Heroes of the past...

http://dadtarchive.org/?page_id=61

...and heroes of the present.

http://outservemag.com/2011/09/101-faces/
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

RandallS

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10111
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 226
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 04:19:20 pm »
Quote from: Altair;21295
Today's the day that that misbegotten 1993 "compromise," which forced American service members to keep their identities under wraps if they're gay, lebian, or bisexual if they wanted to keep their jobs, falls into the dustheap of history, alongside Jim Crow.

I wasn't aware that today was the day, but yes: Good riddance.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 04:31:06 pm »
Quote from: Altair;21295
Since nobody seems to have started a thread on this yet (or did I miss it?), let me be the first to say:


 
There was one 60 days ago to mark the start of the 60 day count down.

Now the fun starts.  Apparently there are a ton of unknowns still to be worked out.  For example can a same-sex set of lovers live together?

Nyktelios

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 562
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 05:54:24 pm »
Quote from: Altair;21295
Since nobody seems to have started a thread on this yet (or did I miss it?), let me be the first to say:

Good riddance.

Today's the day that that misbegotten 1993 "compromise," which forced American service members to keep their identities under wraps if they're gay, lebian, or bisexual if they wanted to keep their jobs, falls into the dustheap of history, alongside Jim Crow. It drags down with it the sullied reputations of those who orchestrated it, such as then U.S. Senator Sam Nunn and then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell. The latter deserves special ignominy as a black man who knowingly inflicted the same kind of harm on others that our own African American people had been subjected to in the U.S. military's past.

As for the heroes in this, these two links put it nicely. Heroes of the past...

http://dadtarchive.org/?page_id=61

...and heroes of the present.

http://outservemag.com/2011/09/101-faces/


It's nice to see the US is taking baby steps into the 21st century.

mandrina

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 890
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 06:23:24 pm »
Quote from: sailor;21314
There was one 60 days ago to mark the start of the 60 day count down.

Now the fun starts.  Apparently there are a ton of unknowns still to be worked out.  For example can a same-sex set of lovers live together?

 
can heterosexual nonmarried couples cohabit?
Katrina

"I have a bad feeling about this."  Every good guy in the Star Wars saga, and an occasional bad guy as well.

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 06:25:24 pm »
Quote from: sailor;21314
There was one 60 days ago to mark the start of the 60 day count down.

Now the fun starts.  Apparently there are a ton of unknowns still to be worked out.  For example can a same-sex set of lovers live together?

 
Yes. On base in housing? Nope.

mandrina

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 890
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 06:26:41 pm »
Quote from: Asch;21337
Yes. On base in housing? Nope.

 
actually, then, they should be able to off base.  If they want to do it onbase, the military should recognize civil unions and all the people have to do is go to a state that allows them and go get one.
Katrina

"I have a bad feeling about this."  Every good guy in the Star Wars saga, and an occasional bad guy as well.

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 07:15:03 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;21338
actually, then, they should be able to off base.  If they want to do it onbase, the military should recognize civil unions and all the people have to do is go to a state that allows them and go get one.


They can off base, that's the point. On base  housing is for single servicemembers (usually dorms/baracks) or married couples. Until gay marriage is FEDERALLY recognized same-sex couples cohabiting on base won't be allowed.

Some things will be permitted, for instance a gay servicemember can designate their spouse/partner as the caregiver for their child should they deploy, they can be designated the beneficiary in life insurance etc. But other spousal benefits like ID cards, medical etc, will be denied.

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 09:18:44 pm »
Quote from: Asch;21351
They can off base, that's the point. On base  housing is for single servicemembers (usually dorms/baracks) or married couples. Until gay marriage is FEDERALLY recognized same-sex couples cohabiting on base won't be allowed.

Some things will be permitted, for instance a gay servicemember can designate their spouse/partner as the caregiver for their child should they deploy, they can be designated the beneficiary in life insurance etc. But other spousal benefits like ID cards, medical etc, will be denied.

 
I was thinking of same-sex pair that are Not married, let alone to each other.  Ship board berthing is always single sex, and AFAIK unit deployment housing is also.  Would the unmarried same-sex couples be allowed to stay in the same berthing space?

As for married couples, DOMA is the big issue.

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 09:23:36 pm »
Quote from: Asch;21337
Yes. On base in housing? Nope.

 
I thought there were restrictions on junior single people with no dependents living off base, at least regards to them getting housing allowance?

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 09:24:38 pm »
Quote from: sailor;21380
I thought there were restrictions on junior single people with no dependents living off base, at least regards to them getting housing allowance?

 
Not especially, depends on the area. If housing off base is massively expensive or insecure then possibly but in general if you aren't a junior enlisted person you can choose to live off base.

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 09:26:12 pm »
Quote from: sailor;21377
I was thinking of same-sex pair that are Not married, let alone to each other.  Ship board berthing is always single sex, and AFAIK unit deployment housing is also.  Would the unmarried same-sex couples be allowed to stay in the same berthing space?

As for married couples, DOMA is the big issue.


Why would them not being married be an issue??? It's not as though single servicepeople aren't allowed to shack up with an S/O as it is if they choose to (off base of course). Now that DADT is irrelevant it doesn't matter.

Unit deployment will certainly continue to have gender separated billeting. Why would that change?

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 09:30:32 pm »
Quote from: Asch;21383
Why would them not being married be an issue??? It's not as though single servicepeople aren't allowed to shack up with an S/O as it is if they choose to (off base of course). Now that DADT is irrelevant it doesn't matter.

Unit deployment will certainly continue to have gender separated billeting. Why would that change?

 
I must not have been clear. I'm talking on-base barracks or on ship. Not off base.

mandrina

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 890
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 09:31:59 pm »
Quote from: Asch;21351
They can off base, that's the point. On base  housing is for single servicemembers (usually dorms/baracks) or married couples. Until gay marriage is FEDERALLY recognized same-sex couples cohabiting on base won't be allowed.

Some things will be permitted, for instance a gay servicemember can designate their spouse/partner as the caregiver for their child should they deploy, they can be designated the beneficiary in life insurance etc. But other spousal benefits like ID cards, medical etc, will be denied.

 
Civil unions aren't marriage. So actually, the military can recognise them if they so choose, since they are not actually dealt with in any federal way.
Katrina

"I have a bad feeling about this."  Every good guy in the Star Wars saga, and an occasional bad guy as well.

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: R.I.P. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 10:07:00 pm »
Quote from: sailor;21385
I must not have been clear. I'm talking on-base barracks or on ship. Not off base.

 
Ah well, either way when I was in the service and two persons were in a relationship if they weren't married they didn't legitimately cohabitate with the blessings of the service until they were married on base, barracks/dorms didn't matter. Just didn't happen unless you had an understanding room mate etc. But there was no official sanction.

Now, if you're wondering if housing will be segregated based on orientation, I doubt it.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
1083 Views
Last post February 12, 2012, 11:21:45 am
by Inca
7 Replies
1070 Views
Last post February 28, 2013, 04:12:41 pm
by Taysatwesir
3 Replies
1580 Views
Last post June 26, 2013, 10:10:38 am
by Nekomata
15 Replies
5521 Views
Last post October 15, 2013, 05:29:46 am
by Medulla
12 Replies
1817 Views
Last post November 30, 2015, 09:55:38 pm
by Scales

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 32
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Senior Staff:
Darkhawk

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall