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Author Topic: Police Caught On Video Joking about Killing People and Turning Off Body Cameras  (Read 2022 times)

RandallS

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In San Francisco in a donut shop.

Read the article and see the videos
Randall
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carillion

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Quote from: RandallS;179909
In San Francisco in a donut shop.

Read the article and see the videos

 

It's a good thing that people in the medical field aren't recorded on their breaks - *awful* things are said yet the same people go out and save/improve lives everyday.
People that work in jobs that entails that they come into contact with some of the worst of societal ills and horrors need to be able to decompress: venting frustrations using humour, even the blackest humour, is one of the ways to do this. Fantasy revenge scenarios are common as well. If we start insisting that the people who deal with the things we don't even want to look at start keeping everything inside, we may as well move to robots right now.

People seem to have this idea that police or other service people on the front line just have to deal with one incident a day and that instance will be put under the microscope. But the truth ( in a big urban area) is that they have to deal with the most frustrating, violent and sorrowful things multiple times a day, day in and day out.

I'm *not* saying that if this behavior happened in reality it would be acceptable. I'm not even saying that it doesn't happen. But I think those instances would be the exception.

And actual behavior, not thoughts or words, are the only thing we have to go on in this area.  And the truth is, if I were those cops, I'd probably be making the same jokes and remarks and I'm a knee-jerk bleeding heart liberal. But don't listen when I'm talking about some of the more troublesome patients....

RandallS

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Quote from: carillion;179926
It's a good thing that people in the medical field aren't recorded on their breaks - *awful* things are said yet the same people go out and save/improve lives everyday.

In uniform and in public, I would say such behavior is unacceptable. I'm not sure it is really even acceptable in private, but is definitely unacceptable in public when you are clearly representing the police force (because you are in uniform).
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carillion

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Quote from: RandallS;179927
In uniform and in public, I would say such behavior is unacceptable. I'm not sure it is really even acceptable in private, but is definitely unacceptable in public when you are clearly representing the police force (because you are in uniform).


Perhaps it's a cultural difference? Police up here (and *especially* the R.C.M.P. ) follow the more military code of which you speak which is you represent the force when in uniform. It's a kind of hold-over from our British days. I have never heard police officers make these jokes in public . Indeed, their reticence to utter any personal opinions at all when on the job is remarkable. I found the police in the U.S. much more ...casual.

But I do think that some understanding has to be shown as well which is why I wrote what I wrote. I can totally understand this kind of conversation happening. It does alarm me when I read you say it is also unacceptable in private. What kind of officer are you thinking of? I don't think she/he exists.

Perhaps a return to the more military model of officer is the answer?  I know the requirements for being a member of the R.C.M.P. are very strictly adhered to. It's very military. The city police are less demanding but even they require both the upstanding behavior code and post secondary education.

I also know that brutal jobs brutalize the people that do them. The forces attract too many people with anti-social impulses and psychopathic tendencies which are fed by the necessities of the job. It's good to weed them out. But if this conversation was recorded from officers of upstanding character and service records, then I think that also has to be taken into account.

But to go back to the cultural thing, It isn't hard to see that many of the police problems down in the U.S. are a response to variables that are not present up here. So perhaps being sensitive to the smallest infraction is a requirement there?

Melamphoros

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Quote from: RandallS;179927
In uniform and in public, I would say such behavior is unacceptable. I'm not sure it is really even acceptable in private, but is definitely unacceptable in public when you are clearly representing the police force (because you are in uniform).

 
I probably have the darkest sense of humor around, and I think even I would be shocked if a cop said this.  Mostly because I wouldn't be sure if they were joking or not.


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carillion

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Quote from: Melamphoros;179933
I probably have the darkest sense of humor around, and I think even I would be shocked if a cop said this.  Mostly because I wouldn't be sure if they were joking or not.


In my urban environment, it would never occur to me that it *wasn't* a joke or just blowing off steam. And perhaps that expectation tempers how in turn the forces behave?

Melamphoros

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Quote from: carillion;179935
In my urban environment, it would never occur to me that it *wasn't* a joke or just blowing off steam. And perhaps that expectation tempers how in turn the forces behave?

 
Tell me, does the system in Canada allow cops to get away with murder?


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carillion

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Quote from: Melamphoros;179939
Tell me, does the system in Canada allow cops to get away with murder?



Of course not . There are contentious cases and bad officers, of course. But surely the system(s) in the U.S. do not allow for it or indeed in any reasonably civilized country.
What am I missing?

Sarah

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Quote from: carillion;179947
Of course not . There are contentious cases and bad officers, of course. But surely the system(s) in the U.S. do not allow for it or indeed in any reasonably civilized country.
What am I missing?

 
...Have you really missed the news of all the police killings of People of Colour and the discussion around it?
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RandallS

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Quote from: carillion;179947
What am I missing?

That the police often do get away with murder in the US.
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Morag

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Quote from: Melamphoros;179939
Tell me, does the system in Canada allow cops to get away with murder?

 
Where you wanna start? the Winnipeg General Strike of 1919? The Estevan Riot in the 30s? The Regina Riot during the On-to-Ottawa Trek? Robert Dziekanski? Andrew Loku? James Daniel McIntyre? David Doucette? Phuong Na Du?

(And, I mean, these are just the killings, which are basically the tip of the iceberg w/r/t the awful stuff the RCMP does on a regular basis. And with Bill C-51 passed it's only going to get worse, and worse, and worse. Unless we can oust the Cons in October.)

It might not be on the same scale as in the States*, but yeah. Our cops get away with murder a lot.

*Which might just be a population/percentages thing, really. We got less people, less cops, etc. The per capita comparison is kinda beyond the scope of my free time, though, so.
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Melamphoros

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Quote from: Morag;179966
Where you wanna start? the Winnipeg General Strike of 1919? The Estevan Riot in the 30s? The Regina Riot during the On-to-Ottawa Trek? Robert Dziekanski? Andrew Loku? James Daniel McIntyre? David Doucette? Phuong Na Du?

(And, I mean, these are just the killings, which are basically the tip of the iceberg w/r/t the awful stuff the RCMP does on a regular basis. And with Bill C-51 passed it's only going to get worse, and worse, and worse. Unless we can oust the Cons in October.)

It might not be on the same scale as in the States*, but yeah. Our cops get away with murder a lot.

*Which might just be a population/percentages thing, really. We got less people, less cops, etc. The per capita comparison is kinda beyond the scope of my free time, though, so.

 
I was mostly asking rhetorically, but it's "nice" to know that both our countries have issues in that department.


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Morag

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Quote from: Melamphoros;179969
I was mostly asking rhetorically, but it's "nice" to know that both our countries have issues in that department.

 
Oh I figured, but I also figured some examples would be good (for the lurkers if no one else).

And yeah..."nice." *offers a shot of vodka in sad-solidarity*
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Aranel

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Police Caught On Video Joking about Killing People and Turning Off Body Cameras
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 09:04:12 pm »
Quote from: Morag;180001
Oh I figured, but I also figured some examples would be good (for the lurkers if no one else).

And yeah..."nice." *offers a shot of vodka in sad-solidarity*

 
*unlurks and waves at other lurkers*

If anybody is wondering about the UK I have links.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sean_Rigg
It's taken 7 years but one of the police officers is facing criminal charges related to his death. Not for killing him but for perjury.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19353403
That article is from 2012 but it describes the events leading up to Seni's death in greater detail than this article which is reporting that no police officers will face criminal charges http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32935200

Article about deaths in police custody being the highest for 5 years: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/23/deaths-in-custody-highest-level-five-years-independent-review



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azelle_Rodney
A police officer was tried for murder but was cleared by the jury.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson
Unlawfully killed but the police officer who struck him to the ground was cleared of the manslaughter charges.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Grainger
Shot dead by the police despite being unarmed. No charges against the police officer.



Last one because I can't read through anymore.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Shot 11 times by the police the day after the failed bombing attempts in London (that were two weeks after the 7/7 terrorist attacks) because he acted suspicious ( he went to catch a train, the station was closed which the police didn't know, so he got onto a bus to go to another train station) and "had Mongolian eyes" so was misidentified as one of the terrorists. No police officers charged for his murder.

Obviously, we don't have the same levels as the U.S. and even taking in the population differences etc the deaths caused by UK police will be far lower because our police officers don't tend to have firearms. But they still do get away with murder over here as well.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 09:08:11 pm by Aranel »

carillion

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Quote from: Morag;180001
Oh I figured, but I also figured some examples would be good (for the lurkers if no one else).

And yeah..."nice." *offers a shot of vodka in sad-solidarity*


Then for the lurkers benefit :), lets get the facts straight. In the Winnipeg strike of 1919, the first thing the mayor did was *fire* most of the regular police force and bring in what came to be known as the 'Specials'  ( anyone sympathetic to the civic leaders), the *North West Mounted Police* ( the R.C.M.P. had not as yet been formed) and Army.
Canada as it is now wasn't even in existence yet.
Using examples from the past to make a statement of the present should be accurate rather than portrayed as the antecedent to the "awful things (unspecified) that the R.C.M.P. do" if a case is to be made.

It was said in this thread that the police in the U.S. get away with murder 'often' (and this was then seconded to Canada as well ).'Often' to me means more than half of the time, so 5 or 6 times out of ten.

Murder is the premeditated taking of a life with malice aforethought. So one should at least do the statistics on that. That is, take all the murders committed in the population. Take in all the murders committed by uniformed police and figure out if police officers commit murder more than the average and *get away with it* (as compared to the general population who do the same). Also, do the stats on how man people in the population are uniformed police officers and get a percentage on that (also, just for fun, put in the stats of police who are murdered by non-police - that is also a stat. that should be in there).

Do people really believe that *all* police get away with premeditated murder 'often'?

I don't think it's enough to simply state " Police get away with murder". That's a heavy, heavy charge and needs some back up.

Also, in the article that leads into this thread this is stated "The video was captured by a nearby person who held the camera up just over their shoulder to record the exchange. It is actually surprising that the officer did not realize that he was being filmed because the footage was recorded just feet away from him."

Maybe he *did* know and wanted to be as outrageous as possible because it's pretty invasive having someone record your breaks. It may be that these are psychopaths who got into the force. And undoubtedly, whether the actual *facts* of this encounter will ever be known,  they will lose their jobs.  But that does not show that there is a causal relationship in *this case*.Since it has also been stated that such things as they said should not be uttered even in private, perhaps they will *justly* lose their jobs. But if that is the case, then it should be stated that way, not used as a broad brush to castigate every serving officer as a potential murderer.  

 I get pretty tired of people making huge , sweeping statements and these get taken as facts, like 'the police often get away with murder'. And because that's a very *emotive* statement to make, people just keep it rolling, facts be damned. We live in a time of judge, jury and executioner being one person with a cell phone and access to the net.

And consider this . In the U.S. there is still capital punishment. I can't think of a better example of premeditated murder by police, state and government officials. Yet that doesn't get bruited about like a juicy story like this because in the most terrible way possible, it's not even uncommon news. That's bloody horrifying.

This kind of emotive stuff without the back up stats. is what puts people at odds. I know full well that there are many people that should *not* be in any one of the Forces, just as there are people in all jobs and trades that have the potential to do terrible harm . I also think that egregious examples of bigotry of any kind should be brought to light.

But just sayin' is just sayin' and it will fail to move those that have the power to enact change by it's very poverty of established facts.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 09:28:38 pm by carillion »

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