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Author Topic: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests  (Read 6398 times)

Celtag

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 11:39:56 am »
Quote from: mlr52;67615
I fail to understand what a girl being pregnant has to do with attending school.  

Can that be extended to the workplace?
They see it as a bad reflection upon the school, the parents and other students. They don't want in their minds, girls behaving like whores. Basically they are saying either be a good little child or your gone. I grew up in a town that was a lot like that. If one did something wrong, you were an out cast and thrown to the wolves.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 11:46:24 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;67618
See, I don't think any of that is really relevant.  It's still only hurting the girls, it's still disgusting, and it's still discrimination based on being female.  Whether or not it's rich girls or poor girls doesn't matter that much.  It's invasive, sexist, and none of the school's business.


See there i'd disagree.  It's no more discrimination than the fact only girls can get pregnant.  I just think it's sort of idiotic to think they would be any less put down or humiliated by having the school check it than what thier own peer group and student body will do to them or say about them.

As far as the school's business I'd disagree there with the current social position of making the school's responsible for so many things the family once did.  That doesn't even touch upon the medical issues that the schools are held responsible for or the insurances that have to be maintained.

To me this is just more of the PC police and removing responsibility from the individual and saying it might hurt thier feelings to be held accountable for thier actions.

mlr52

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 12:06:26 pm »
Quote from: Celtag;67623
They see it as a bad reflection upon the school, the parents and other students. They don't want in their minds, girls behaving like whores. Basically they are saying either be a good little child or your gone. I grew up in a town that was a lot like that. If one did something wrong, you were an out cast and thrown to the wolves.

 
Having a baby is life, (it should not be equated with good, or bad), even chasity belts did not work.  There will always be some male who will take advange of young and girls.
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HeartShadow

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Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 12:13:03 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67626
See there i'd disagree.  It's no more discrimination than the fact only girls can get pregnant.  I just think it's sort of idiotic to think they would be any less put down or humiliated by having the school check it than what thier own peer group and student body will do to them or say about them.

As far as the school's business I'd disagree there with the current social position of making the school's responsible for so many things the family once did.  That doesn't even touch upon the medical issues that the schools are held responsible for or the insurances that have to be maintained.

To me this is just more of the PC police and removing responsibility from the individual and saying it might hurt thier feelings to be held accountable for thier actions.

The school isn't responsible.  It's just putting itself in the middle to make sure only girls that meet their standards of sexual purity are in that school.

And it is sexist and discriminatory.  Boys don't have to police their sex lives.  They can be screwing everything in sight and who cares.  Girls?  Have people think you're sexually active and the school has the right to invade your privacy and your life any damn time they want.

It's discrimination on the basis of perceived sexual activity.  For the girls.  Boys have free rein.  Looks like sexism to me.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 12:25:45 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;67631
The school isn't responsible.  It's just putting itself in the middle to make sure only girls that meet their standards of sexual purity are in that school.


I'd say legally the school is responsible for anything that occurs on its grounds.  So if the girl is pregnant and anything happens to her while on school property the school is liable.  Besides it still does not remove the acknowledgement of the parents as to what the school standards are when they enroll thier children in the school program.  No one makes them enroll thier child in the program that is a situation they themselves have elected to enter.

Quote
And it is sexist and discriminatory.  Boys don't have to police their sex lives.  They can be screwing everything in sight and who cares.  Girls?  Have people think you're sexually active and the school has the right to invade your privacy and your life any damn time they want.


Wow, talk about a red herring issue.  I haven't seen anything that says the boys are not held responsible for any thing they do.  Nor have I seen anything that say's it is or is not an issue as part of this issue.  Your assuming they are not held to some standard adn that there is no accountability or reprimand for thier actions.

As far as privacy its foolish to think the students don't know who is doing who.  Nor who is knocked up or puts out or any other aspect.  Especailly the assumption that no one will talk or belittle the girl or drag her through the social mud, if even the assumption is only an assumed one and not actual.

Quote
It's discrimination on the basis of perceived sexual activity.  For the girls.  Boys have free rein.  Looks like sexism to me.


Again I don't see anything that says the boys have free rein.  All I see is another grouping trying to remove any sense of accountability from their actions by claiming it might harm their image or self-esteem.  The most harmful thing I see here is mommy and daddy might actually have to come to the school and find out what their child is doing and then take responsibility for thier children or child.

sailor

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 12:54:24 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;67579
I'm right there with ya.  
On what planet would someone be OK with a fucking school employee trying to get their daughter to pee on a stick?  
"We suspect your daughter may be pregnant, sir."
To which I say: I suspect you've made me temporarily insane, sirrah, so now I'm going to rip your motherfucking head off.

 
It could be worse. They could be making them pee in a cup for a drug test and then dipping the pregnancy test kit in afterwards.

Catherine

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 12:56:53 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67626
See there i'd disagree.  It's no more discrimination than the fact only girls can get pregnant.  

Yes, it is discrimination. Is there anything at all in their rules about the boys who got them pregnant in the first place? Because they sure didn't get that way all by themselves! If the boy also goes to that school, does he also get kicked out? If not, then it's targeting only the female students. That's discrimination.

Quote
I just think it's sort of idiotic to think they would be any less put down or humiliated by having the school check it than what thier own peer group and student body will do to them or say about them.

Idiotic? Really? As if her peers have the same kind of power that the people in a position of authority have. Right, because high school kids gossiping is exactly the same as school officials forcing someone to take a medical test based solely on their "suspicions"!

What do think would make them "suspicious"? Could it be the way she dresses? Or maybe it's the fact that she's more physically developed than other girls in her class? It could be due to some nasty rumors that have been started about her. Then, if she's pregnant or if she refuses to have her privacy violated, she gets kicked out. Effectively being ostracized from her peers by people in a position of authority.

Having school officials say that she's unfit to interact with her peers is much more humiliating because it sends the message to the student body that she's "bad", we have to protect you from her by sending her away. If that's not humiliating for a high school kid, I don't know what is.
 
Quote
As far as the school's business I'd disagree there with the current social position of making the school's responsible for so many things the family once did.  That doesn't even touch upon the medical issues that the schools are held responsible for or the insurances that have to be maintained.

No one is making the school responsible for anything! The school is stepping in where they don't belong all on their own. This has nothing to do with insurance. This is about not wanting to see the belly bump walking around the halls. It's about the school's image and it's a way to weed out those girls they feel are undesirable. Remember, she doesn't have to actually be pregnant to get kicked out, all that is needed is a "suspicion" and her refusal to have her privacy violated.

Quote
To me this is just more of the PC police and removing responsibility from the individual

How is it removing responsibility to say that a girl who becomes pregnant should be allowed to stay in school?  How is it removing responsibility to say that school officials are wrong to force medical tests on students based on "suspicion"? How is a student refusing to have her privacy violated refusing to take responsibility? How?

Quote
and saying it might hurt thier feelings to be held accountable for thier actions.

How is kicking someone out of school holding them accountable in any way? It's punishment, plain and simple. Sure, why worry about her "feelings" She's just a dirty little slut anyway, so why should anyone care about her "feelings"? Right?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:02:20 pm by Catherine »

Aster Breo

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Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 01:03:05 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67626
See there i'd disagree.  It's no more discrimination than the fact only girls can get pregnant.

It is clearly discrimination based on sex.

If the school receives federal funding, the policy on pregnancy is a blatant violation of Title  IX, section 106.40, which expressly prohibits discrimination based on pregnancy.  See http://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/reg/ocr/edlite-34cfr106.html#S40
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sailor

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 01:13:49 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67632
I'd say legally the school is responsible for anything that occurs on its grounds.  So if the girl is pregnant and anything happens to her while on school property the school is liable.  Besides it still does not remove the acknowledgement of the parents as to what the school standards are when they enroll thier children in the school program.  No one makes them enroll thier child in the program that is a situation they themselves have elected to enter.



Wow, talk about a red herring issue.  I haven't seen anything that says the boys are not held responsible for any thing they do.  Nor have I seen anything that say's it is or is not an issue as part of this issue.  Your assuming they are not held to some standard adn that there is no accountability or reprimand for thier actions.

As far as privacy its foolish to think the students don't know who is doing who.  Nor who is knocked up or puts out or any other aspect.  Especailly the assumption that no one will talk or belittle the girl or drag her through the social mud, if even the assumption is only an assumed one and not actual.



Again I don't see anything that says the boys have free rein.  All I see is another grouping trying to remove any sense of accountability from their actions by claiming it might harm their image or self-esteem.  The most harmful thing I see here is mommy and daddy might actually have to come to the school and find out what their child is doing and then take responsibility for thier children or child.

 
Considering that pregnancy is one of the leading factors for girls not graduating high school I can see why they are doing it.  

Some of the alternatives would be to not have such a charter school. OK, condemn half the students (the at risk boys and girls) in the school to not getting an education.

There is a reason that parents in areas with poor schools will do almost anything to get their kids into a good school. If I had a couple tens of million dollars, I bet I'd be swamped with applicants from parents of at risk girls if I opened a free private school that mandated daily virginity checks to be performed by the male principal and female school nurse.

Only test the at-risk girls since middle class girls that get pregnant have a lot more options such that they are much more likely to finish school, even if it's a year behind their initial year cohort.

While the school's policy is almost certainly illegal, I wonder how many parents of the girls support the schools policy?  (not concerned about parents who only have boys there).

monsnoleedra

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 01:41:07 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;67637
It is clearly discrimination based on sex.

If the school receives federal funding, the policy on pregnancy is a blatant violation of Title  IX, section 106.40, which expressly prohibits discrimination based on pregnancy.  See http://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/reg/ocr/edlite-34cfr106.html#S40


Sorry still don't see it.  The student is not being prevented from graduating, thier not being prevented from continuing thier educational program, any home program has to meet the same level and criteria as the inschool program.

Still have not found any indicator of at what point a pregnancy is considered to be required to leave school and go to home school or seek other educational programs.  Have not found the criteria which constitudes reason to ask for a pregnancy test to be administered.  So I can not conclude that week one of the first trimester would be seen as a point to place the student on home study.

So all I can go off of it what would seem logical to me and based upon what I experienced in the school system I worked for.  Unless it was a medical issue the student continued until the doctor impled it was dangerious to the student or the student / student's family requested home school option.

All the other issues of boys is a red herring at this point nor have they been included in any of the material I've found pertaining to the case.

HeartShadow

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Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012, 02:08:36 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67644
Sorry still don't see it.  The student is not being prevented from graduating, thier not being prevented from continuing thier educational program, any home program has to meet the same level and criteria as the inschool program.

Still have not found any indicator of at what point a pregnancy is considered to be required to leave school and go to home school or seek other educational programs.  Have not found the criteria which constitudes reason to ask for a pregnancy test to be administered.  So I can not conclude that week one of the first trimester would be seen as a point to place the student on home study.

So all I can go off of it what would seem logical to me and based upon what I experienced in the school system I worked for.  Unless it was a medical issue the student continued until the doctor impled it was dangerious to the student or the student / student's family requested home school option.

All the other issues of boys is a red herring at this point nor have they been included in any of the material I've found pertaining to the case.

You're in a different world than the rest of us.  It has nothing to do with responsibility and everything to do with shame.  Just because it's a situation you cannot end up in does not mean it doesn't exist and isn't harmful.

I can't even understand your argument, unless it's that you agree with the policy or believe that parents have the right to sign away a child's rights to a third party.

There's a reason boys aren't being mentioned.  Think.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012, 02:55:40 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;67648
..There's a reason boys aren't being mentioned.  Think.

 
Your right it's because it doesn't pretain to them.  By your argument your using the "Hey I got in trouble but what about so and so".  That whole mindset to me is a misdirect where you try to cast doubt upon something or someone else to lesson it upon yourself.

This case appears to be in regards to pregnancy not who got them that way.  That I would assume would be covered under other statues or legal situations depending upon the age of the student and whomever got her pregnant.  Things such as carnal knowledge, statuary rape, etc from a legal position and whatever policies are to be found in the school.  Of course none of that restricting what actions the girls parents may elect to pursue against the fatehr of the child.

Of course it also goes to your "Shame" defense of playing upon the girl to identify who the father is if its an unknown.  Talk about potential integrity being questioned and actions being looked at in regards to ethics and responsibility.

Of course not even touching upon paternity, accusations of multiple partners within the time frame of conception.  Character, integritity, promiscuity of the girl in question and her decession making process or how loose she is by social recognization.  Or even her historical data and any transgressions she's had in the past.

Quote
You're in a different world than the rest of us.  It has nothing to do with responsibility and everything to do with shame.  Just because it's a situation you cannot end up in does not mean it doesn't exist and isn't harmful.


NO I don't think so.  I just don't pretend to that there is more to it than I can see at the moment.  Nor do I assume its all a witch hunt and out to get the poor innocent girl and ruin her reputation.  

As I stated I haven't found any information in regards to what would be the criteria to ask for such a test.  What or when a pregnancy would be considered to be of such duration as to warrant them being placed on home schooling.

Quote
I can't even understand your argument, unless it's that you agree with the policy or believe that parents have the right to sign away a child's rights to a third party.


Do I agree with the policy? No  

Yet as a parent who would be held responsible for the child and their actions while they are underage I have to hold my self accountable.  If I knowingly place them into such a school or academic situation then I accept the restrictions or conditions of such institution and placement.

In this instance a charter school that has to be applied to and approved for admitance.  Something I would assume a parent would read the policies and procedures for.  Hopefully even going so far as to explain those policies and procedures to their older children.

Life is full of situations where we are not in control and the responsibility is given over in a limited degree to others.  Don't want them tested or expossed to such a situation then home school them.

HeartShadow

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Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012, 03:16:16 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67654

Oh of course, you're right.  You must be right.  It's not about sexism and discrimination, it's about stupid parenting.  How did I not see that.

Because homeschooling is the only other option.  Mommy shouldn't be working out of the house anyway.  She should stay home and teach her kiddies so they don't have to deal with the mean world.

And girls should take responsibility.  By keeping their legs crossed, I'd assume.  They don't have a right to privacy if they go to school there.  Nope.  Mommy signs the contract, kid better not get screwed.  Or let anyone suspect she might.  No innocence until proven guilty.  Shame away from a position of power.

But you must be right.  After all, what would I know.  Just because I've been a teen girl doesn't mean anything.  Or that I'm a mom.  Or anything.  Because YOU have all the answers.

Too bad for you they're wrong.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2012, 03:24:16 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;67655
Oh of course, you're right.  You must be right.  It's not about sexism and discrimination, it's about stupid parenting.  How did I not see that.

Because homeschooling is the only other option.  Mommy shouldn't be working out of the house anyway.  She should stay home and teach her kiddies so they don't have to deal with the mean world.

And girls should take responsibility.  By keeping their legs crossed, I'd assume.  They don't have a right to privacy if they go to school there.  Nope.  Mommy signs the contract, kid better not get screwed.  Or let anyone suspect she might.  No innocence until proven guilty.  Shame away from a position of power.

But you must be right.  After all, what would I know.  Just because I've been a teen girl doesn't mean anything.  Or that I'm a mom.  Or anything.  Because YOU have all the answers.

Too bad for you they're wrong.


Interesting because I don't take your position I must be all wrong.  Now whose assuming what, your the one making all those assumptions of what I think a girl or mother should do.  Your the one running on emotional connection (perhaps memories?) to the issue I'm just looking at what is there.

With that i've had enough of the emotional roller coaster at the expense of what is actually being done and the lack of information as to why it is being done or the conditions which must be met.

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Re: Louisiana High School Kicks Girls Out If They Refuse Pregnancy Tests
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 03:25:09 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;67654
Your right it's because it doesn't pretain to them.  By your argument your using the "Hey I got in trouble but what about so and so".


You are missing that whether or not a girl is actually pregnant is genuinely, completely, and entirely irrelevant to the entire objection, I see.

Having medical privacy breached in a manner that is 100% based on one's sex?  Yes, that's relevant.

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