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Author Topic: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.  (Read 4351 times)

BunnyMaz

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2011, 06:55:36 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;26421
I don't believe in a loving god (or any god, really, with the kinds of power one typically associates with a god).  And I also don't care about the concept of a soul.  I just think that the already-born should have rights that trump the yet-to-be born (and the vast gray area that this implies).

Brina

 
Oh aye, I was referring more specifically to the religions most often correlated with a life-at-conception and lobbying POV.

mandrina

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 02:50:40 pm »
Quote from: LyricFox;26028
(Once again, Texas heaves a heavy sigh of relief while saying, "Thank god for Mississippi.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44935764/ns/us_news-life/#.TpyzpYIeVBk

 

And it didn't pass

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/08/mississippi-defeats-life-at-conception-ballot-initiative/
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RandallS

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 04:18:41 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;30492
And it didn't pass

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/08/mississippi-defeats-life-at-conception-ballot-initiative/

And the vote wasn't even really close.
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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 08:52:27 am »
Quote from: RandallS;30503
And the vote wasn't even really close.

And yesterday I read where a state rep in Alabama or Georgia is working to get a like amendment on the ballot there.

Hopefully what happened in Mississippi will cause some people to think twice before seriously pursuing this.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:53:13 am by LyricFox »
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HeartShadow

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 09:12:24 am »
Quote from: LyricFox;30601
And yesterday I read where a state rep in Alabama or Georgia is working to get a like amendment on the ballot there.

Hopefully what happened in Mississippi will cause some people to think twice before seriously pursuing this.

 
It's such a disgusting idea.  Criminalizing women for whether or not there's a fertilized egg in her .. whether or not losing that proto-baby is her choice or not?  REALLY?

If nothing else, I think everyone knows SOMEONE that's had a miscarriage - where are we gonna put all the women?

jackasses.  Really.  sheesh.

Owl

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2011, 02:02:15 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;30605
It's such a disgusting idea.  Criminalizing women for whether or not there's a fertilized egg in her .. whether or not losing that proto-baby is her choice or not?  REALLY?

If nothing else, I think everyone knows SOMEONE that's had a miscarriage - where are we gonna put all the women?

jackasses.  Really.  sheesh.


Something I see a law that decides life at fertilization cause is more women taking much longer to get to a doctor when they are pregnant.  Not letting big brother know about it until you have to and all.  This can be a very bad thing.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

HeartShadow

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2011, 02:19:57 pm »
Quote from: Owl;30626
Something I see a law that decides life at fertilization cause is more women taking much longer to get to a doctor when they are pregnant.  Not letting big brother know about it until you have to and all.  This can be a very bad thing.

 
Especially if there's already a medical history of problems - early intervention can help, but at the same time, you don't want to get arrested if it doesn't work .....

seriously, it's just a clusterfuck of stupid.

Melamphoros

Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2011, 06:33:54 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;30605

If nothing else, I think everyone knows SOMEONE that's had a miscarriage - where are we gonna put all the women?

 
Exactly.  There are three women that I know in real life (two being my mother and aunt) who have miscarried in the past.  In the case of my aunt, it was for no discernible reason what-so-ever.


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sailor

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2011, 09:37:08 pm »
Quote from: LyricFox;30601
And yesterday I read where a state rep in Alabama or Georgia is working to get a like amendment on the ballot there.

Hopefully what happened in Mississippi will cause some people to think twice before seriously pursuing this.

 
Follow the money.  Both the Democrat and GOP will raise money to pass or defeat it. both sides know it will be struck down by the courts, so they won't have to live with the bill being implemented.

Owl

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2011, 09:41:17 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;30627
Especially if there's already a medical history of problems - early intervention can help, but at the same time, you don't want to get arrested if it doesn't work .....

seriously, it's just a clusterfuck of stupid.

 
Exactly.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

Rowanfox

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2011, 06:43:09 pm »
Quote from: Owl;30626
Something I see a law that decides life at fertilization cause is more women taking much longer to get to a doctor when they are pregnant.  Not letting big brother know about it until you have to and all.  This can be a very bad thing.

 
A very sad story in our press this week is the tale of a mother who dumped her newborn son into a dumpster last October. He was found and is doing well now but in the ongoing investigation, it has been revealed that the woman in question has been pregnant at least 2 previous times. Now the powers that be are wondering, did she miscarry? or did she dump them after birth into the nearest convenient garbage?

Surely, by any standards, abortion in the first trimester is infinitely preferable to baby dumping......and yet I ask myself what woman could dump a newborn??!! And is the fear of abortion the cause?

Miss

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2011, 05:29:51 pm »
Quote from: Rowanfox;30817
A very sad story in our press this week is the tale of a mother who dumped her newborn son into a dumpster last October. He was found and is doing well now but in the ongoing investigation, it has been revealed that the woman in question has been pregnant at least 2 previous times. Now the powers that be are wondering, did she miscarry? or did she dump them after birth into the nearest convenient garbage?

Surely, by any standards, abortion in the first trimester is infinitely preferable to baby dumping......and yet I ask myself what woman could dump a newborn??!! And is the fear of abortion the cause?

 
In some states you can drop your baby off at a safehaven (like a hospital). Hence the name "safehaven law". I hear about women dumping babies in the trash while living in a state with those laws. It confuses me.

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2011, 11:11:35 pm »
Quote from: sailor;30671
Follow the money.  Both the Democrat and GOP will raise money to pass or defeat it. both sides know it will be struck down by the courts, so they won't have to live with the bill being implemented.

 
My understanding is this whole effort is really about getting Roe overturned. Which seems pretty damned silly unless the composition of the USSC changes. Right now, it wouldn't go anywhere. Later? Who knows.
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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2011, 12:45:44 am »
Quote from: LyricFox;31162
My understanding is this whole effort is really about getting Roe overturned.

I think that's the end game.  Any law that grants any kind of 'fetal legitimacy' is going to seriously impact Roe.
There was a Prop on the books here in CA a few years back, the intent of it was to add extra criminal penalty in cases where the victim was a pregnant woman and the fetus was injured and/or killed.  Sounds like a good idea, but under such a law it can be argued that a fetus has 'rights,' which wouldn't be good for Roe (or, in fact, liberty) at all.
I leave the seat up

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Re: Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2011, 08:50:19 am »
Quote from: LyricFox;31162
My understanding is this whole effort is really about getting Roe overturned. Which seems pretty damned silly unless the composition of the USSC changes. Right now, it wouldn't go anywhere. Later? Who knows.

 
Just the opposite.  Both sides know that the court is not going to overturn Roe.  Thus they are willing to put such things on the ballot or try to pass bills to score money and political points.  

If Roe is overturned And the GOP tries to pass any restrictions like this after that, it would be the end of the GOP.

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