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Author Topic: Health care law trial begins today  (Read 6855 times)

Auress

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2012, 01:39:27 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49735
You'll need to provide some backup for that. As something of a leftist myself, I consume a fair amount of partisan media, and the critiques of Obama are pretty severe in those quarters.

But I was more concerned about the pointless reductionism of "a leftist is a leftist is a leftist." It's that kind of sloppy overstatement that, when actually believed, leads to bullshit like this:



http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/allen-west-hears-cheers-jeers-at-town-hall-2295766.html?cxtype=rss_news


Well, I'm not sure I can provide you any because most of them are private friends of mine who have nothing to do with this forum and don't have blogs. They're not reporters. They're all moderates as far as political philosophy, one even being a poli sci professor that my mother is taking classes from since she's majoring in poli sci at 64 (don't ask.....).

I don't HATE Obama......but he's not a moderate in any sense of the word, but people would like others to think he is so he doesn't seem to socialist. But, a spade is a spade. I don't expect you to take my word for it....ask some moderates. That's what I do. I can't provide you links...../shrug

As for my leftist statement, would it have been better that I said, "A socialist is a socialist is a socialist?" He is one. I call it like I see it, it's an honest, personal view. Again,....../shrug, I don't know what you'd have rather I said, I'm a bluntly honest person when it comes to my opinions.....

yewberry

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2012, 01:51:53 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;49759
As for my leftist statement, would it have been better that I said, "A socialist is a socialist is a socialist?" He is one. I call it like I see it, it's an honest, personal view. Again,....../shrug, I don't know what you'd have rather I said, I'm a bluntly honest person when it comes to my opinions.....


Aside from The Affordable Care Act (which has a lot more to do with getting into bed with insurance companies than controlling them), can you please help me understand this president's "socialist" agenda?  'Cause this lefty just can't see it.

Brina

cigfran

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #92 on: April 11, 2012, 01:59:21 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;49759
As for my leftist statement, would it have been better that I said, "A socialist is a socialist is a socialist?" He is one.

 
Actual socialists weep.

Setting aside the Affordable Care Act - which is only marginally "socialist" in the pejorative sense being used here - what do you see as Obama's most significant socialist acts while in office?

Or are we, as has been suggested already, at the point where any conventional liberal position is viewed as radical? Is the rightist myth so entrenched now that anything that even the most sophomoric Randian can sneer at as "collectivist" must scramble forever upwards against the fake slippery slope of "socialism => communism => ohmygodsitsthesovietunionalloveragain"?

yewberry

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #93 on: April 11, 2012, 02:06:46 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49765
Or are we, as has been suggested already, at the point where any conventional liberal position is viewed as radical? Is the rightist myth so entrenched now that anything that even the most sophomoric Randian can sneer at as "collectivist" must scramble forever upwards against the fake slippery slope of "socialism => communism => ohmygodsitsthesovietunionalloveragain"?

I'll bet Sweden's Gulags are way nicer.

ETA:  Or should that be "G├╝lags"?  ;)

Brina
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 02:08:51 pm by yewberry »

Inca

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #94 on: April 11, 2012, 03:21:18 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;49759
As for my leftist statement, would it have been better that I said, "A socialist is a socialist is a socialist?" He is one.

 
Most socialists that self-identify as socialist would not view Obama as a socialist.

Auress

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #95 on: April 11, 2012, 04:24:46 pm »
Quote from: Inca;49770
Most socialists that self-identify as socialist would not view Obama as a socialist.


Again, I'm going by personal contacts, people who self idnentify as left, right, moderate, socialist...whatever. I can't dictate what other people who identify as those things do or don't believe.

People here just seem have such a big problem with other people's opinions, it's actually quite amusing and entertaining. A couple of those people I mentioned earlier, are having a field day reading this thread.....

As for offering up fodder for calling Obama a socialist, it's freely Googleable, I'm not going to do the homework. He's done far more than one thing to prove he's bent towards socialism and that he's NOT a moderate. People can call him what they like, I don't care, I just disagree vehemently.

That's not all bad, by the way. Socialism. Some socialism, which we've had in this country for years, isn't bad. But, you know it gets rather tiresome not to be able to call a person what they seem to be given their actions.

I guess I should have just blindly nodded my head to him being a moderate.

He's a DEMOCRAT, is that better? I'm an Independent....for the record.

yewberry

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2012, 04:47:37 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;49779
As for offering up fodder for calling Obama a socialist, it's freely Googleable, I'm not going to do the homework. He's done far more than one thing to prove he's bent towards socialism and that he's NOT a moderate. People can call him what they like, I don't care, I just disagree vehemently.


I know Obama's record.  I also know what the pundits on the right say.  I want to know what you think makes him a socialist.  You obviously have opinions on the subject, things he's done that irk you and led you to this conclusion.

I don't think you should speak counter to your convictions, but you should be able to back them up with a few examples.

Brina

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Re: Health care law trial begins today
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2012, 04:52:05 pm »
Quote from: Inca;49770
Most socialists that self-identify as socialist would not view Obama as a socialist.

 
I suppose there has to be one out there.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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