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Author Topic: Four Days of School a Week.  (Read 2905 times)

Lokabrenna

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 01:07:29 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;72034
I was 9, babysitting my 2 year old sister.  We also knew to fear the divine wrath of Mom.  Not exactly smart to leave kids alone when they're that young imo, and I don't agree with 'divine wrath' as a parenting style either.


When I was in university, my schedule worked out one term so that I had no classes on Monday and Friday.

It was stressful on Thursdays (when I had three three hour classes) but the long weekend was so worth it.  Will these students be able to handle it, though? I don't know.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2012, 03:11:01 am »
Quote from: SatSekhem;1604
Marion County, FL passes three-day weekends starting in 2012.

 
I think if they had cut the upper grades another day without adding time and relied upon online tech to continue the learning they way many of those going to college are going to have to do anyway, they might have been able to keep the full week for the littles.

I think more things like this are going to happen, but right now there are still some places where the tech to get online and communicate with a teacher is too costly for many households (probably one issue there). But it would provide more in the way of one-to-one contact and accountability as well as decrease building operating costs. I see it coming. Public schools lose money to eschool charters when kids leave, and they don't have to, so it is just a matter of time. Already some schools have no-day snow-days where kids have to check in online to get work and communicate with questions etc. during bad weather.

My concern is like the others, what about the littles!?

Sophia C

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 03:51:03 am »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;72085
I think more things like this are going to happen, but right now there are still some places where the tech to get online and communicate with a teacher is too costly for many households (probably one issue there). But it would provide more in the way of one-to-one contact and accountability as well as decrease building operating costs. I see it coming. Public schools lose money to eschool charters when kids leave, and they don't have to, so it is just a matter of time. Already some schools have no-day snow-days where kids have to check in online to get work and communicate with questions etc. during bad weather.

My concern is like the others, what about the littles!?

 
And mine is also for the teachers. We always, always get a raw deal out of cuts like this. With learning retention issues, it's going to be harder for the teachers to do their jobs well. And do we know if the teachers' pay will be cut as a result? I would assume so...
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Jenett

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 10:18:49 am »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;72088
And mine is also for the teachers. We always, always get a raw deal out of cuts like this. With learning retention issues, it's going to be harder for the teachers to do their jobs well. And do we know if the teachers' pay will be cut as a result? I would assume so...

 
In other proposals of this kind, no, teacher pay isn't cut - after all, they're working longer hours to teach, and if they're covering the same amount of material, some of that time gets pushed to additional grading.

Where the cost savings comes from is three fold:
1) not heating or cooling the building that day (which somewhere like Florida, can be a substantial savings. Air conditioning is necessary a bunch of the year there, but also expensive.)

2) busing - I don't know about this county, but in rural US counties, school bus routes can be an hour or more each way from the furthest limits. The fewer times you have to run that, the better your finances are (given that school buses use a lot of gas, need lots of regular maintenance at mileage points, etc.)

3) there are some jobs - not teachers, but things like lunch staff, janitors, etc. where having the building open fewer days does save their salary. (Sometimes, they're instead shunted into working for a program that offers some activities when the school is closed, in a building that's already open - a community center, for example.)
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RandallS

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 10:26:03 am »
Quote from: mandrina;1671
On the other hand, this is going to play hell with families' child care arrangements, since, serious, school also does play a role as taxsupported childcare as well as taxsupported education.

A lot of parents will not be able to afford one day a week of child care (nor are child care centers likely equipped to provide it) even if all parents could afford it. Nor will they be able top afford one parent quitting their job (as that what it would take as few employers can provide Friday off two-thirds of the year) to be able to care for their children one extra day a week.
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Dark Midnight

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 10:35:02 am »
Quote from: RandallS;72127
A lot of parents will not be able to afford one day a week of child care (nor are child care centers likely equipped to provide it) even if all parents could afford it. Nor will they be able top afford one parent quitting their job (as that what it would take as few employers can provide Friday off two-thirds of the year) to be able to care for their children one extra day a week.

 
I think that would be my concern, also. I am lucky in a way because, if that were to be implemented over here, I am home to take care of my daughter due to my retirement. I know that a lot of others would not be so lucky. Childcare places are limited and can be very expensive.

Childcare is also incredibly difficult to find for children aged 11 and over (as soon as they get to secondary (high) school). It then becomes the responsibilty of a parent to either stay at home or arrange for a friend or relative to care for their child during the day.
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catja6

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 02:19:46 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;1604
Marion County, FL passes three-day weekends starting in 2012.

 
France typically has a 4 1/2 day schedule, with school ending early on Wednesdays; however, that only works because there is enormous support for working parents, including state-subsidized child care. In the US, as many people have commented, it would be a disaster.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 07:22:33 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;72088
And mine is also for the teachers. We always, always get a raw deal out of cuts like this. With learning retention issues, it's going to be harder for the teachers to do their jobs well. And do we know if the teachers' pay will be cut as a result? I would assume so...

 
As mentioned since the hours are going to amount to the same, it's unlikely there will be pay cuts. However, as more schools take advantage of technology, teachers who take the initiative to learn how to skype or use collaborative software like Google docs and apps might find themselves able to work from home a bit more.

However, with that will probably come another kind of salary negotiation eventually because way more time is spent doing online communication than herding by bells. The upside is that the hours and effort will be a matter of logs, so no more just guessing at how long the work week is hours wise. The public might like that actually. Another upside would be the drop in safety issues behavior wise. There may be online bullying but that can be traced. What there won't be is physical fights, false fire alarms, bomb threats and general class time silliness. Right now one version of it is called "flip teaching" and it has had its detractors; however, since I've been in ed with all its trending, eventually the bottom line is saving money no matter what detractors there are.

If, and I think it is only a matter of when given how much it costs to keep a building open, schools start doing this with the older age levels the saved monies might make way for a much better younger grade level experience.

I just thought of another concern though. Children of all ages who get free lunch or reduced price lunches are going to miss a day and for some, that's going to mean a day without any food. I've had a few like this and it is sad. I do not know how they manage in summers, but they often came back from holiday breaks less a few pounds. Even if the retention is maintained, the attention will be competing with hunger. Unless they have another plan to get the lunches and breakfasts to the kids and they may. I don't know. They'd take a cut in some federal funds, I believe, if they did not serve this population.

I do like that the issues are now a matter of reality for some and I think the nation will be watching to see how it goes.

Jenett

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Re: Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 10:09:48 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;72217

I just thought of another concern though. Children of all ages who get free lunch or reduced price lunches are going to miss a day and for some, that's going to mean a day without any food. I've had a few like this and it is sad. I do not know how they manage in summers, but they often came back from holiday breaks less a few pounds. Even if the retention is maintained, the attention will be competing with hunger. Unless they have another plan to get the lunches and breakfasts to the kids and they may. I don't know. They'd take a cut in some federal funds, I believe, if they did not serve this population.

 
In summers, there are often designated locations - the school I worked for (despite being a private school that didn't get funds through that program) was a summer site, because of the summer programs that used the space.

In other communities I know of, there's usually some cooperation with community spaces - rec centers, libraries with public access rooms, church basements, that kind of thing - to provide free lunch (and in this case, maybe some kinds of activities for kids off during the day.)
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Sophia C

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Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 02:50:06 am »
Quote from: Jenett;72126
In other proposals of this kind, no, teacher pay isn't cut - after all, they're working longer hours to teach, and if they're covering the same amount of material, some of that time gets pushed to additional grading.

Where the cost savings comes from is three fold:
1) not heating or cooling the building that day (which somewhere like Florida, can be a substantial savings. Air conditioning is necessary a bunch of the year there, but also expensive.)

2) busing - I don't know about this county, but in rural US counties, school bus routes can be an hour or more each way from the furthest limits. The fewer times you have to run that, the better your finances are (given that school buses use a lot of gas, need lots of regular maintenance at mileage points, etc.)

3) there are some jobs - not teachers, but things like lunch staff, janitors, etc. where having the building open fewer days does save their salary. (Sometimes, they're instead shunted into working for a program that offers some activities when the school is closed, in a building that's already open - a community center, for example.)

Well, that sounds fairly positive. In one teaching job I worked, we were given a shift in hours (annual rather than weekly - the semesters got shorter and days got slightly longer), and we did lose out on pay. I hope they really do make sure that school support staff get moved into other work with similar pay elsewhere.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 02:50:48 am by Naomi J »
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Aster Breo

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Four Days of School a Week.
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 10:31:34 am »
Quote from: Wrynn;2371
Of course it is always subjective according to just how responsible an 11/12 can be or is.  And how the parent feels about it.

Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to pop in here to make the point that many states and localities in the U.S. (possibly all, but I'm not sure) have laws on the books about the age at which children can legally be left home alone.  Or, at least, they used to when my kids were little, and I haven't heard anything about that changing.  

I don't think many people are aware of that, and I doubt they're enforced much, but they're there.  

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