Edmonton high school teacher fired for giving zeros

[Jubes]

http://www.theobserver.ca/2012/09/14/edmonton-high-school-teacher-fired-for-giving-zeros


Yes,  fire the teacher because the  child  didn't do the work. That's  the solution, wouldn't  want little  "Johnny"  or little " Suzie" to actually have to make an effort to  earn that grade now would we. There is no  accountability  for  children in  school anymore it's all the teachers fault if the child  does  not  do the work,  never mind  trying to use the  word "fail" *GASP*  that might be   just to negative for the child to hear.

[Starglade]

This makes me see every shade of red, including infra.

Kelley had a bad time of it last year, and got plenty of zeroes on her record. No one but KELLEY was held responsible for that. Hospitalizations notwithstanding, she had the responsibility to DO THE WORK. Summer school helped her pull through two of the three core classes. Two others she has to retake, one as a computer-based class, the other just as a regular classroom-based class. (Sorry, brain is not braining very well today.) It wasn't the TEACHERS' fault that she didn't pass. It was HERS. She earned the grades she was given, period.

Grrrrrrr. Put the burden to pass where it belongs--on the students, who must complete the work assigned.

[Jubes]

Grrrrrrr. Put the burden to pass where it belongs--on the students, who must complete the work assigned.

 
Exactly, I'm still trying to  figure out how a teacher is supposed to mark  an assignment  they  DO NOT have! OH  you didn't hand the assignment in, ok no problem, here have at  the very  least a 50%   so you  don't fail we wouldn't want your self esteem to  be  hurt you poor traumatized little thing, there there don't  cry now,  oh here  have a cookie and don't  fret I'll give you a 90% for that unfinished work. :eek:

[Skyth]

Exactly, I'm still trying to  figure out how a teacher is supposed to mark  an assignment  they  DO NOT have! OH  you didn't hand the assignment in, ok no problem, here have at  the very  least a 50%   so you  don't fail we wouldn't want your self esteem to  be  hurt you poor traumatized little thing, there there don't  cry now,  oh here  have a cookie and don't  fret I'll give you a 90% for that unfinished work. :eek:

 
Of course, I had my 4.0 ruined by a teacher that only gives out 95% for assignments when everything is done right...

[mlr52]

Of course, I had my 4.0 ruined by a teacher that only gives out 95% for assignments when everything is done right...

 
That 95% could have been contested, because you submitted the work.
The zero cannot be because there was no work submitted.

[Jubes]

That 95% could have been contested, because you submitted the work.
The zero cannot be because there was no work submitted.

 
That's  right if you handed in the  work and feel you deserve a better  grade  than you got then you can fight for the grade you feel you deserve. If you do not  do the work and do not hand in the assignment  then do not  expect to get a mark on work  you didn't DO! No wonder kids now a days think  they are  owed  everything for  doing nothing at all.

[RandallS]

Yes,  fire the teacher because the  child  didn't do the work. That's  the solution, wouldn't  want little  "Johnny"  or little " Suzie" to actually have to make an effort to  earn that grade now would we. There is no  accountability  for  children in  school anymore it's all the teachers fault if the child  does  not  do the work,  never mind  trying to use the  word "fail" *GASP*  that might be   just to negative for the child to hear.

The article doesn't give me enough info to comment. It says he was fired for "defying the  school's policy and handing out zeroes to students who failed to  complete assignments." Without seeing the policy, I can't comment on it. However, employees who don't follow their employer's policies no matter how misguided (provided they are legal, of course), really don't have much leg to stand on when their get fired.

Were the policies misguided? How can I even have an opinion as I don't know exactly what those policies were.  On the surface, "don't give zeros for missed work" sounds like a silly policy, but without knowing what he was supposed to do instead of giving the zero I can't really say.

[Jubes]

The article doesn't give me enough info to comment. It says he was fired for "defying the  school's policy and handing out zeroes to students who failed to  complete assignments." Without seeing the policy, I can't comment on it. However, employees who don't follow their employer's policies no matter how misguided (provided they are legal, of course), really don't have much leg to stand on when their get fired.

Were the policies misguided? How can I even have an opinion as I don't know exactly what those policies were.  On the surface, "don't give zeros for missed work" sounds like a silly policy, but without knowing what he was supposed to do instead of giving the zero I can't really say.

 
It wasn't actually a  school board policy it was the  principal's  policy. Here are a few  more links about the story.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/09/13/20195376.html

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/09/10/20185731.html

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/08/29/20154341.html

and this article about another province that  dropped the  no- zero  policy  two  years ago.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/08/27/20146231.html

I'll have a look around and see if I can  find  any link to the policy of    the school board or the school.

[Jubes]

I'll have a look around and see if I can  find  any link to the policy of    the school board or the school.

ok  so here  I found the  school board  web site  and can not seem to find  anything about  no zero policy on the site.
http://www.epsb.ca/about/mission.shtml

then I found the  school's web site and the  school's  no zero policy thing, which they  call  the Assessment  Policy  
http://shep.epsb.ca/images/stories/Assessment_Policy_2011-12.pdf

This is the situational code excuse sheet

http://shep.epsb.ca/images/stories/situational_codes_marks_reports.pdf

School website
http://shep.epsb.ca/about-shep

I'm sorry  but as a parent I"m not gonna sit at home and  memorize  a list of codes and what they  mean so I can  look  up the excuses the school is giving  my  kid for not  doing  their  work or handing  in their assignments. If  my  kid isn't doing the work or  they are skipping  classes and  not turning in assignments then  sorry but they  deserve a  0 maybe they will learn to  do the work and  get the mark, if not they can  take the class over again and maybe  learn  to hand in the work the next time.

[RandallS]

then I found the  school's web site and the  school's  no zero policy thing, which they  call  the Assessment  Policy  
http://shep.epsb.ca/images/stories/Assessment_Policy_2011-12.pdf

This is the situational code excuse sheet

http://shep.epsb.ca/images/stories/situational_codes_marks_reports.pdf

School website
http://shep.epsb.ca/about-shep

After reading through this, I agree with the school board, the teacher should have been disciplined for failure to use the grading system adopted by the school. Firing seems a bit excessive unless this wasn't a one-off thing. The grading system is non-standard, but if the teacher did not want to use it, he shouldn't have been teaching at that school. If most of the parents of children did not want the system, they should have been able to pressure the school board to change it.

[Annie Roonie]

http://www.theobserver.ca/2012/09/14/edmonton-high-school-teacher-fired-for-giving-zeros

He knew what he was doing. After reading the policies adopted, IMO he's done a very productive thing for his community in making these policies come to light. It doesn't seem like he expected anything different to happen, and at this juncture in his career, he's in the best position to speak for those are less able to do so.

Often parents do not know of these kinds of things enough to say anything about them until they are met with a report card that is four pages long and says little.

As to why these wacky rambling policies of good intent are adopted without full parental knowledge, well, that's another topic and there's already scads of writing about it on the net. Look to the high stakes testing.

[Annie Roonie]

The grading system is non-standard, but if the teacher did not want to use it, he shouldn't have been teaching at that school. If most of the parents of children did not want the system, they should have been able to pressure the school board to change it.

I agree but I don't think many parents know what the grading policies are of their children's schools or even where to find them. They have busy lives and trust that wacky stuff isn't going to happen I guess.

I understand the idea that if he didn't like it, he should have left. But the reality is that he would have been out in the cold. Nobody is going to hire an expensive teacher when they don't have to. And in the end, I think this was his way of leaving.

[MadZealot]

After reading through this, I agree with the school board, the teacher should have been disciplined for failure to use the grading system adopted by the school. Firing seems a bit excessive unless this wasn't a one-off thing. The grading system is non-standard, but if the teacher did not want to use it, he shouldn't have been teaching at that school. If most of the parents of children did not want the system, they should have been able to pressure the school board to change it.

On the other hand another teacher (Doug Senuik)  had been reprimanded for giving zeros at the same school but was not suspended or terminated.  That could be considered precedent, and if the district is inconsistent in its disciplinary prodecures it's asking for legal action.  According to Senuik the principal at this school, while acting within authority, is also not following district regs.  According to the article this was a one-off occurrence, there's the question of whether this one-time occurrence is enough to warrant separation, and there's the question of whether it really is enforceable under certain circumstances (ie, can't grade your homework if the dog ate it.)  Might be time to take it to the district level.  

The school's website emphasises the 'shared responsiblilty' of teaching, expecting parents to be as involved in students' education as the educators, even going so far as to enumerate those responsibilities.  This does the rational thing of NOT putting the full onus on teachers' shoulders.  
The Assessment code explanation for work 'not handed in' is "The student has been given an opportunity to make up the task assigned, but has chosen not to take advantage."  If the student does not demonstrate responsibility and a decent work ethic, and if the parents don't powwow with educators as expected, then what's the teacher to do?  What grade for nonexistent work other than a zero?  The school's policy is nonsensical, imo, and it's right to stand up to obviously bad policy.

[sailor]

He knew what he was doing. After reading the policies adopted, IMO he's done a very productive thing for his community in making these policies come to light. It doesn't seem like he expected anything different to happen, and at this juncture in his career, he's in the best position to speak for those are less able to do so.

Often parents do not know of these kinds of things enough to say anything about them until they are met with a report card that is four pages long and says little.

As to why these wacky rambling policies of good intent are adopted without full parental knowledge, well, that's another topic and there's already scads of writing about it on the net. Look to the high stakes testing.

 
Haven't read any of the articles posted in this thread, so if one them contradicts what I'm about to say, call it out.

Might the drive for national or at least state wide standardized tests be in partial reaction to this type of no-zero policy and report cards that do not say anything?  If the kids are getting to high school or graduating but don't know anything, and the report cards are either showing the students is doing well or is so convoluted to be useless parents are not going to be happy with the end results of Johnny Can't Read.

[Annie Roonie]

Might the drive for national or at least state wide standardized tests be in partial reaction to this type of no-zero policy and report cards that do not say anything?  If the kids are getting to high school or graduating but don't know anything, and the report cards are either showing the students is doing well or is so convoluted to be useless parents are not going to be happy with the end results of Johnny Can't Read.

 

-Johnny Can't Read came first.

-Standardized testing came after and was unrelated to Johnny but directly tied to business interests who wanted more malleable employees and science and math pushes from other arenas. Johnny was hauled out often during this time and so were the Japanese and their supposed impeccable math and science scorers. Seriously, there were movies.

-Grade cards came from the tests.When your kids under perform, you have to, as an admin, show the state what you are doing to improve.  

-Enter Gusky, Marzano and a slew of other wonks with the perfect studies supported, data driven, out of the box, proactive, value added plans. All you gotta do is adopt them!

That's about the order of things here. But I don't know about Canada. (That a union would approve of a school wide grading policy is just weird to me.)

I skipped a bunch of course like the real things that created "Johnny" to begin with. Of course that was complicated but much more related to societal issues than grading policies. Though some educational movements did not help matters at all. And yeah, these policies are kind of like those old movements but with more codes and more firing power.