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Author Topic: Charges for single-use plastic carrier bags being introduced in England 5 Oct+  (Read 3007 times)

PerditaPickle

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RandallS

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Quote from: Pickle;180468
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/carrier-bags

Dallas tried that, it lasted less than a year before the law was repealed middle of this year. I like the idea, but it seems to cause a lot of anger and hassle. Worse, it's another law that hurts lower income people more than it does middle or upper income people.
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Quote from: Pickle;180468
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/carrier-bags


Businesses like W.H. Smith and Aldi, off the top of my head, have been doing that for years. The change won't be as big as it seems.
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HarpingHawke

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Quote from: Pickle;180468
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/carrier-bags

 
They've been doing something similar to that* where I live for over 2 years now. While I see the supposed reasoning behind it, after learning that the money from the bags goes to nebulous government spending (while the companies that offer the bags still have to pay for them), I'm finding I don't trust it. If my local and state government were clear about where the money went and that it was related to the environment somehow, I doubt I'd have as many issues with this ruling.

Also, what Randall said. It does harm lower income people. Reusable bags cost money, and now supposedly non-reusable bags cost money (although less). That's an issue.

Finally, some people *do* reuse those bags, and I'd much prefer to not have to buy additional plastic trash liners to use for litterbox waste and small trash cans.



*the local government has banned plastic bags entirely and requires a 15 cent payment per paper bag.
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

RandallS

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Quote from: HarpingHawke;180539
Finally, some people *do* reuse those bags, and I'd much prefer to not have to buy additional plastic trash liners to use for litterbox waste and small trash cans.


Before the City of Dallas went back to not making people charge for bags, we had to buy a box of 1000 (or whatever) plastic bags at Sams because we needed them for small trash cans, for trash that needed to be frozen, etc. I will admit that the City of Dallas made the whole thing unpopular with businesses too by requiring businesses that wanted to provide one-use bags (that they had to charge the public for to have a costly license) and to buy only approved bags from a single over-priced source (some bag company apparently had a lot of pull with the city council). Things that were absolutely unnecessary for the basic idea of charging for one-use bags.
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Evaine

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Quote from: RandallS;180541
Before the City of Dallas went back to not making people charge for bags, we had to buy a box of 1000 (or whatever) plastic bags at Sams because we needed them for small trash cans, for trash that needed to be frozen, etc. I will admit that the City of Dallas made the whole thing unpopular with businesses too by requiring businesses that wanted to provide one-use bags (that they had to charge the public for to have a costly license) and to buy only approved bags from a single over-priced source (some bag company apparently had a lot of pull with the city council). Things that were absolutely unnecessary for the basic idea of charging for one-use bags.

 
I'd just like to comment on this from the point of view of someone who's been using the scheme for about three years in Wales.  I work in a secondhand bookshop, and we charge 5p for a bag.
5p isn't going to make much difference even to the poorest in society, especially when the alternative is to bring a bag with you, which costs nothing.  Cotton bags, and "bags for life" from supermarkets, are readily available.  And most people know when they're going to go shopping, so it only takes a moment's thought to pick a bag up.  
The money for the bags in our shop goes to Air Ambulance.  Some shops keep the money, since they have always had to buy the bags anyway.
I remember when plastic carrier bags were first introduced - my gran always carried a net bag with her, with leather handles, which lasted for years.  Most plastic bags, research has shown, are used for an average of 12 minutes - and take about 240 years to break down.  Surely it's better to use one bag for years?
Some people have commented that they re-use bags to line waste bins.  I haven't needed to do that for over ten years.  Any dirty, non-recyclable waste goes straight into the purple bag provided by the Council.  Any vegetable waste in the kitchen goes straight into the compost bucket - and the Council provides biodegradable bags for food waste, and collects weekly.  The bin in my bathroom is lined with a thick paper bag which has been there for ten years.
And it seems to me that Dallas set up a system that they wanted to fail, so they could turn round and say "Oh, we tried that and it didn't work."
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sailor

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Quote from: Evaine;181100
I'd just like to comment on this from the point of view of someone who's been using the scheme for about three years in Wales.  I work in a secondhand bookshop, and we charge 5p for a bag.
5p isn't going to make much difference even to the poorest in society, especially when the alternative is to bring a bag with you, which costs nothing.  Cotton bags, and "bags for life" from supermarkets, are readily available.  And most people know when they're going to go shopping, so it only takes a moment's thought to pick a bag up.  
The money for the bags in our shop goes to Air Ambulance.  Some shops keep the money, since they have always had to buy the bags anyway.
I remember when plastic carrier bags were first introduced - my gran always carried a net bag with her, with leather handles, which lasted for years.  Most plastic bags, research has shown, are used for an average of 12 minutes - and take about 240 years to break down.  Surely it's better to use one bag for years?
Some people have commented that they re-use bags to line waste bins.  I haven't needed to do that for over ten years.  Any dirty, non-recyclable waste goes straight into the purple bag provided by the Council.  Any vegetable waste in the kitchen goes straight into the compost bucket - and the Council provides biodegradable bags for food waste, and collects weekly.  The bin in my bathroom is lined with a thick paper bag which has been there for ten years.
And it seems to me that Dallas set up a system that they wanted to fail, so they could turn round and say "Oh, we tried that and it didn't work."

 
There have been some other variants in the US.

One of the super low cost grocery stores charges for any bag, about 5 cents I think. They do have a pile of boxes at the front of the store from stocking the shelves for free.  

One middle scale grocery store was giving a 5 cent discount for each reusable bag you used, although the reusable bags they sold were a couple of bucks I think.

Wal-Mart in my area used to give you a free re-usable bag for every re-usable bag full of plastic bags (from any store).

I suspect that stores would love to have folks shift Most of their shopping to reusable bags.

Gigi Kiersten

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Quote from: RandallS;180493
Dallas tried that, it lasted less than a year before the law was repealed middle of this year. I like the idea, but it seems to cause a lot of anger and hassle. Worse, it's another law that hurts lower income people more than it does middle or upper income people.


I didn't hear about Dallas, but yeah I can see how that law can be abused despite it's good intentions. Honestly, I'm no where near being a liberation but it feels like the government going a little too far. There should be some incentives or discounts to help lower income families not use plastic or paper bags.

victoreia

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Quote from: Jenny Cee;181133
I didn't hear about Dallas, but yeah I can see how that law can be abused despite it's good intentions. Honestly, I'm no where near being a liberation but it feels like the government going a little too far. There should be some incentives or discounts to help lower income families not use plastic or paper bags.

 
The state of Hawaii instituted a state-wide ban on plastic shopping bags (with some exceptions) this past July; most retail places I've been to since the ban have gone back to paper bags. The main exceptions to the ban are restaurants and other food vendors. (I seem to remember reading that plastic bags for pet waste disposal are exempted, but that's not shopping-related, except in the buy-them-at-the-pet-store sense.)

While there are many more options to buy a reusable shopping bag in stores, they're not charging extra for bagging groceries (or whatever) if you didn't bring your own.
So far, no problems here that I know of.

I should note, this ban doesn't apply to plastic garbage bags, just one-use shopping bags. (And yes, I've used the plastic bags from the grocery store to dispose of pet waste.)
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Gigi Kiersten

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Quote from: victoreia;181166
The state of Hawaii instituted a state-wide ban on plastic shopping bags (with some exceptions) this past July; most retail places I've been to since the ban have gone back to paper bags. The main exceptions to the ban are restaurants and other food vendors. (I seem to remember reading that plastic bags for pet waste disposal are exempted, but that's not shopping-related, except in the buy-them-at-the-pet-store sense.)

While there are many more options to buy a reusable shopping bag in stores, they're not charging extra for bagging groceries (or whatever) if you didn't bring your own.
So far, no problems here that I know of.

I should note, this ban doesn't apply to plastic garbage bags, just one-use shopping bags. (And yes, I've used the plastic bags from the grocery store to dispose of pet waste.)

Well, we tend to reuse our plastic bags in my house a lot. Although we often forget to bring the reusable bags to the store. Aldo thank you for clearing up the law for me.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:18:39 pm by Gigi Kiersten »

Chatelaine

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Quote from: Pickle;180468
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/carrier-bags


Nearly three weeks later, reactions have been quite positive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11913224/Carrier-bag-charge-was-there-meltdown-in-the-bagging-area.html

Scotland started charging for bags earlier, and here are the results. I hope England does equally well.
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