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Author Topic: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts  (Read 5377 times)

mandrina

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2011, 10:50:21 am »
Quote from: LyricFox;17370
I would think, though, that it would apply to disasters other than just floods.

Then again, I find the whole idea of depopulating a coastline to be very naive.  Not only is there the question of where those millions of people going to go, but there are vital services that are handled best in those ares (thinking ports, here) and can't simply be relocated.

 

Insurance covers most of the others, at least for the person with the mortgage, or the werewithal to get renter's insurance.

 BUt yeah depopulating the direct coasts would be a problem, as well as  the floodprone rivers..
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sailor

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2011, 11:56:16 am »
Quote from: LyricFox;17366
Do you have something to back this up? Something that's a reputable source and not an opinion piece. And just so you know, Fox isn't a particularly well thought of source, either.



Again. Back up that this is happening frequently? Since you're using "timetable" here, let's just say that whatever source you're quoting had better have some pretty good numbers.


 
Personal expericance with regards to repairs to flooded homes. Yes, 3 or 4 times in the past 5 years. Will you accept that or do you want a source for many homes being fixed.

Flood insurance policy is supposed to pay the home owner much if not most of the costs of fixing the home to prevent a 4th flood such as raising the house a couple of feet.  

As for the other poster's points, I'll get back to that after work.  There are ways and reasons to get the govt out of much of the flood insurance business, not Much, not all.

LyricFox

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2011, 12:29:36 pm »
Quote from: sailor;17404
Personal expericance with regards to repairs to flooded homes. Yes, 3 or 4 times in the past 5 years. Will you accept that or do you want a source for many homes being fixed.


No. I want a source. The reason I say that, Peter, is the original poster is making it sound like fraud. And fraud that is happening a LOT.

So give me a source for this happening.

I'm not interested in perpetuating fraud, but I'm also not interested in penalizing people who aren't committing it. And I don't accept the idea that people who live in coastal areas just need to pick up and move (that is not only naive, but it's really not intelligent nor practical).
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sailor

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2011, 12:56:19 pm »
Quote from: LyricFox;17406
No. I want a source. The reason I say that, Peter, is the original poster is making it sound like fraud. And fraud that is happening a LOT.

So give me a source for this happening.

I'm not interested in perpetuating fraud, but I'm also not interested in penalizing people who aren't committing it. And I don't accept the idea that people who live in coastal areas just need to pick up and move (that is not only naive, but it's really not intelligent nor practical).

 
OK, I'll see what I can dig up over the weekend.

As for fraud, not in my experiance.  Houses get flooded, they get repaired.  

Sometimes the owner could make a little cash, other times they lose a little (above and beyond the deductiable). Preventing an owner from making a little cash would cost more than would be saved most likely and would likely hurt more people a modest amount.

Couple of caveats here though.  If the owner decides that wood floors are acceptable rather than going back with carpet, they Might save some money. If they can do the work themselves, they can save cash in exchage for sweat equity. Not replacing all the stuff that was lost, such as do you need to replace the expensive sewing machine you haven't used in 10 years?

Also, my impression (limited to no data) is that lots of floods are only a couple of inches deep.  It's still expensive, but it won't make a lot of news.

As for solutions?  Well, I'd limit coverage to places built before a certain date in the near Future. That would be existing homes plus homes that are under construction or in planning permit stages. This would be on top of existing limitations of it has to be a primary residence at the time.

IF we had the money; and IF I thought we needed to spend money to get the economy / housing sector going I'd look into flood proofing existing homes. Raise a house 6 inches and stop half the claims type stuff.

This is sort off the top of my head, but it's the direction I'd head.

LyricFox

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2011, 01:03:11 pm »
Quote from: sailor;17407


This is sort off the top of my head, but it's the direction I'd head.

 
And I think that's the sort of thing that makes sense.

FWIW, my objections to the original poster's idea is that it's a wholesale method and not a tailored method.

You can't generalize that way.
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sailor

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2011, 01:17:47 pm »
Quote from: LyricFox;17406
No. I want a source. The reason I say that, Peter, is the original poster is making it sound like fraud. And fraud that is happening a LOT.

So give me a source for this happening.


 
Wall St Journal, only the first two paragraphs are free (and I don't have a subscription). FEMA has a catagory "repetitive-loss properties"—and some others as "severe repetitive-loss properties."  That indicates to me that there are significant numbers of people with multiple claims.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904583204576544663612530654.html

this from 2005, so it's likely there have been major policy changes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/10/AR2005101001465.html

This FEMA document from 2006.  There were 8,300 severe repetative loses.
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/nfip/manual200705/20srl.pdf

Web page (index) about repeative claims program and the mitigation that ges with it.
http://www.fema.gov/government/grant/rfc/index.shtm

This from 2004.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04401t.pdf
Note that there was a major change in 2004, so the problem May have been fixed, but I doubt it.
Quote
Repetitive loss properties represent a significant portion of annual flood
insurance program claims. About 1 percent of the 4.4 million properties
currently insured by the program are considered to be repetitive loss
properties—properties for which policyholders have made two or more
$1,000 flood claims. However, about 38 percent of all program claim costs
have been the result of repetitive loss properties, at a cost of about
$4.6 billion since 1978

LyricFox

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2011, 01:21:15 pm »
Quote from: sailor;17412
Wall St Journal, only the first two paragraphs are free (and I don't have a subscription). FEMA has a catagory "repetitive-loss properties"—and some others as "severe repetitive-loss properties."  That indicates to me that there are significant numbers of people with multiple claims.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904583204576544663612530654.html

this from 2005, so it's likely there have been major policy changes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/10/AR2005101001465.html

This FEMA document from 2006.  There were 8,300 severe repetative loses.
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/nfip/manual200705/20srl.pdf

Web page (index) about repeative claims program and the mitigation that ges with it.
http://www.fema.gov/government/grant/rfc/index.shtm

This from 2004.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04401t.pdf
Note that there was a major change in 2004, so the problem May have been fixed, but I doubt it.


Thanks. Let me look at these a bit later. I've taken some Benadryl and my eyes are glazing over.
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HeartShadow

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2011, 01:53:43 pm »
Quote from: LyricFox;17413
Thanks. Let me look at these a bit later. I've taken some Benadryl and my eyes are glazing over.

 
Something else to keep in mind - flood damage also makes a house harder to SELL, even if it's been repaired, so once you've got flood problems moving becomes really hard.

LyricFox

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Re: Cantor: No emergency disaster relief funds without cuts
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2011, 01:55:13 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;17416
Something else to keep in mind - flood damage also makes a house harder to SELL, even if it's been repaired, so once you've got flood problems moving becomes really hard.

 
Yep. Sort of like bad house foundation.
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