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Author Topic: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo  (Read 2176 times)

MadZealot

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2019, 10:26:34 pm »

But I was a transphobe in my early 20s, so I'm obviously Impure and not to be trusted.

Uh oh. Hope you weren't planning to run for office. Any office.
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Hariti

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2019, 01:53:26 am »
You said that being in college made him a "grown-ass man". I pointed out that it did not.

We might be running into a cultural barrier; in Eastern Kentucky, where I live, 'grown-ass man' or 'grown-ass woman' doesn't imply that a person is fully biologically developed.

Rather, that's the term we use when we are distinguishing between a child and an adult, as defined by societal and legal expectations. If someone does something they shouldn't, and their youth is used as a defense or deflection, it's quite common to point out that they are, according to our (American) customs, an adult and should be treated as such.

We do that by saying that he/she is a 'grown-ass man/woman' and should've known better.

I apologize if I've misrepresented, misinterpreted, or otherwise falsely presented your views! I sincerely promise I didn't mean to put words in your mouth; what I wrote in response to your comment addresses the stance I actually thought you were taking. If that's not the case, I'm sorry for misconstruing your position.

Now, regarding Governor Northam...

I will concede that the barrier between adulthood and adolescence is arbitrary; human growth is a gradual process with no clear-cut, universal breaking points. Putting the line at 18, rather than 16, 17, 19, or 27, is an artificial distinction; however, there has to be a line somewhere.

Our society choose 18 as the age to draw that line, as did many other societies; some societies chose other arbitrary numbers. What matters is that, in America, everyone knows where that line is located. Every single person knows, well before they turn 18, that society's expectations for their behavior will change at that age.

I will admit that some leeway might be called for when someone is close to that arbitrary line; a 17 year old might be treated like an adult in some cases, a 19 year old or even a 20 year old might be treated like a child in other cases, but frankly Northam was 25 when the photo was taken. He wasn't even close to the line where our culture distinguishes adults from children; he was a full seven years into his adult life!
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Yei

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2019, 05:09:00 am »

I dunno. I remember Trump pretty much steamrolling the competition. The GOP had no choice but to unite behind him.

That's news to me. From where I'm sitting, I've seen several prominent Republicans (including John McCain and George H.W. Bush as well as many others) railing against Trump and contradicting him. Not to mention spats between Trump and Paul Ryan. Or Trump's failure to unite the party behind basic Republican policy aims, such as repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act which they had been campaigning for for the last 9 years. Or fights with administrators and officials, some of whom are/were Republicans (James Comey). Or the fact that Steve Bannon, one of Trumps closest allies, started campaigning against his preferred candidates in primaries. Plus, all those people abandoning the White House to write tell all books about how bad the administration is.

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On the other hand, I remember the Dems being pretty divided, what with the progressive purists splitting for Bernie and Stein; Bernie fans were particularly incensed after the primary. In liberal spaces, Hillary was derided as "corporatist", "neocon", "in bed with the banks", etc. I remember seeing this comment often: "I'd love a woman president, just not that woman." (And that was coming from progressive women.) And if you were a male Bernie fan and you dared to critique her, you were a misogynist. I'd mention something, here, about the left eating their own, but Morag already did.

How much of this is reality though? I am aware that there was some tension between different supporter groups, but as far as I am aware there are no reliable statistics that prove, or even just support the notion that this divisiveness had any real impact on the election with respect to other possible factor.

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Re: the popular vote, yes Hillary won, but it's the EC that matters,


Exactly. A shambolic system created for an age that no longer exists.

Quote
and Trump's EC victory really came down to about 80K votes spread across MI, WI, and PA. But though he won popularly in those Democratic strongholds, he did not win bigly. His 3-state total was about 1.16 million less than Obama's in 2008. What's that mean? About 1.16M Democrats stayed home.
That's not very unified. If just 10% of those people had gotten out, we'd be in a much different country right now.

How do you know that that 1.16 million drop was the result of infighting among democratic candidates? There could be dozens of reasons for the drop ranging from the general difference in charisma between Obama and Hillary irrespective of internal party struggles, to gerrymandering, to general apathy, to complacency. Assuming of course that the drop came entirely from democrats deciding not to vote, and not from moderates. Not to mention shifting economic concerns that might have little to nothing to do with Bernie vs. Hillary specifically. Lastly, you are making a huge assumption that the drop in votes is the result of deep ideological fractures in within the democratic base, when the cause could just as easily be more mundane.

Darkhawk

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2019, 11:20:02 am »
I dunno. I remember Trump pretty much steamrolling the competition. The GOP had no choice but to unite behind him.

My recollection of the nomination/primary period is that the Republican electorate was hyperfractured - individual candidates might be strong in one area or another, but not in all regions, which meant that Trump's roughly-second-place-everywhere campaign could in fact rack up a dominant position, even with the significant "NOT THAT GUY" opposition that existed.

A transferrable vote system would likely have changed the dynamic dramatically, as the people who said "I'd rather any of these three guys than the famous racist scam artist" could consolidate their vote rather than the vote coming out more like 2/9, 2/9, 2/9, 1/3.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Hariti

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2019, 12:09:44 pm »
transferrable vote system would likely have changed the dynamic dramatically, as the people who said "I'd rather any of these three guys than the famous racist scam artist" could consolidate their vote rather than the vote coming out more like 2/9, 2/9, 2/9, 1/3.

I've heard that Australia does it that way; could one of our Aussie members (Yei?) verify?
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Skyth

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2019, 04:21:20 pm »
I've heard that Australia does it that way; could one of our Aussie members (Yei?) verify?

Dunno about Australia...But I would love if ranked voting would be applied everywhere in the US.  It would have a two-fold thing where the extremes don't dominate politics and it would make third party candidates viable.  (You could vote Green and not worry about making it more likely for the person you hate to win for instance.)

Jenett

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2019, 04:55:56 pm »
I've heard that Australia does it that way; could one of our Aussie members (Yei?) verify?

Besides Australia, some places in the US do for local races.

Minneapolis is the one I know off the top of my head, because it passed not long after I moved away. In that case, it's only for city races (mayor, city council, school board, parks commission, etc.) because state and county laws affect the other races. The folks I know in Minneapolis are all pretty ardent supporters, though it does take some specific education to explain how it works to people not familiar with the idea.
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Yei

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Re: Virginia Gov. expected to step down over yearbook photo
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2019, 05:49:05 pm »
I've heard that Australia does it that way; could one of our Aussie members (Yei?) verify?

I can confirm. Australia does have preference voting. Furthermore, it also has compulsory voting, and voting occurs on the weekend (a Saturday), rather than on a Tuesday.

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