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Author Topic: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl  (Read 4500 times)

Asch

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 06:40:34 am »
Quote from: Violet Skies;104603
I completely agree with this.  I don`t care if I walk into a bar in a bikini, smelling and looking as sexy and vulnerable as hell, that doesn`t give anyone permission to have sex with me against my will.  When you start talking about precautions (although necessary, thanks to the world we live in and lack of willingness for society as a whole to change our culture so that rape is unacceptable on a basic level), you do start making it the victims fault if something does occur.  And the argument has definetly been made by guys before that "she was practically asking for it" because she did this or because she did that or dressed this or that way (the "look what you made me do" defense).  But, none of that matters because if the girl says "no" it means "no" and no one should be fool enough to violate that.  It becomes even trickier in the case of children, though, because many times they don`t know they have the right to refuse (due to coercian or threats and the like).  Not that the perp would necessarily listen anyway.

 
The fundamental failing to me is not just 'no means no' but YES means yes. Anything else? IS NOT YES. A sober clear yes = yes. PERIOD in my playbook.

MadZealot

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 07:52:40 am »
Quote from: Asch;104605
The fundamental failing to me is not just 'no means no' but YES means yes. Anything else? IS NOT YES. A sober clear yes = yes. PERIOD in my playbook.


This argument is one I came across only recently.  It makes so much sense it's almost an epiphany.
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Juni

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 01:00:10 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;104600
I just want to nudge in, additionally, especially when we're talking about kids, is people not raping is safety.

 
You're absolutely correct- I apologize for the poor wording.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 01:04:02 pm »
Quote from: Asch;104605
The fundamental failing to me is not just 'no means no' but YES means yes. Anything else? IS NOT YES. A sober clear yes = yes. PERIOD in my playbook.

 
I actively consider "no means no" pushed as a response to ... well, lots of everything, in my childhood, really ... to be part of the circumstances that led to my first sexual assault.

You see, I was under the illusion that I would be asked.
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Asch

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 01:31:49 pm »
Quote from: darkhawk;104643
i actively consider "no means no" pushed as a response to ... Well, lots of everything, in my childhood, really ... To be part of the circumstances that led to my first sexual assault.

You see, i was under the illusion that i would be asked.

 
this.

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2013, 09:29:02 am »
Quote from: Violet Skies;104603
It becomes even trickier in the case of children, though, because many times they don`t know they have the right to refuse (due to coercian or threats and the like).  Not that the perp would necessarily listen anyway.

Others have addressed this (and very well, too), but I want to be direct and explicit and specific about it.

What children have (in theory, not practice; see below) is not a right to refuse, but a right to not have their bodily autonomy and personal sovereignty tampered with, whether or not they refused.

It's not just that perps won't listen, it's that they won't provide an opportunity for refusal in the first place (see also, what Darkhawk said).

And, never mind coercion and threats and such, kids mostly aren't aware of their right to refuse because, very often, we teach them they don't have one.  Oh, sure, we tell them all about Stranger Danger and Those Creepy People and such, and that they should say 'no' to Those People - but then we turn around and override their 'no' when they don't want to kiss Grandma. Basically, they learn that there are people they're supposed to say 'no' to, and people they're not allowed to say 'no' to.  The latter doesn't include a right to refuse at all; the former isn't their right to refuse, it's our (adults'/parents') 'no' not their own.  The message being sent is that they don't have a legitimate 'no' of their own.

Stats from the RAINN website:
Quote
93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.
  • 34.2% of attackers were family members.
  • 58.7% were acquaintances.
  • Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim.

I keep wondering, in this convo, whether the rapist 'snuck in' by being 'the neighbor who looks in on her from time to time', and thus someone she felt she couldn't lock the door against.

Sunflower
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 09:30:00 am by SunflowerP »
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sailor

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2013, 12:03:50 am »
Quote from: Valentine;104600
I just want to nudge in, additionally, especially when we're talking about kids, is people not raping is safety.  Statistically the majority of rapes are perpetrated by men, absolutely absolutely true, and also, I see too many people living under the illusion that women don't also sometimes perpetrate rape or abuse, and that narrative goes bad places--like not noticing abuse in lesbian communities, or making a space "safe" by getting rid of men (or trans women) as though women are always, axiomatically safe.  Locking a door doesn't help if it's the kid's parent perpetrating, for instance.  So much of rape is about power differentials, and kids don't have power over much of anyone.

 
http://www.yourtango.com/experts/mary-jo-rapini/female-teachers-sex-students-why

Or in schools.  Female teachers raping male students, although the story calls it "sex" not rape.

mandrina

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2013, 05:06:44 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;103699
Plus, although most (if not all) states do have laws about the minimum age for leaving a child unsupervised (and the age does vary by state), many parents aren't even aware that such laws exist.  Boggles my mind.

 

I'm not sure if it is a law in texas, but a child under 12 that will be left unsupervised by jury duty is grounds for exemption.  Just found out. Not sure what the rules in champaign were, lived there for 37 years, never got called, here less than a year and got it.
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