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Author Topic: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl  (Read 4502 times)

A Disgruntled Scotsman

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 02:28:51 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;104430
Except in cases where carrying the child to term would endanger the life or health of the mother - yes

 
On these grounds I wonder why she didn't get one.  Having a baby when your body isn't even halfway to being fully ready for the ordeal is bloody dangerous!
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 02:39:31 pm »
Quote from: A Disgruntled Scotsman;104470
On these grounds I wonder why she didn't get one.  Having a baby when your body isn't even halfway to being fully ready for the ordeal is bloody dangerous!

 
It's a fine line they run - while yes, it's dangerous, the line is "if we cannot keep her stable without removing the fetus, then we'll abort - if she carry to term, even if it takes massive hospital stay/work, then we don't abort"

It sucks really - she's not going to want it, the parent(s) are going to be reminded every day of what happened, and even if they put the child up for adoption, the memory is still there of a child 'forced' on that girl

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 02:52:11 pm »
Quote from: Sage;104461
She's eleven freakin' years old. It's criminal to force her to go through labor.

Well, sadly it's not literally criminal, but Jesus Christ.

 
Even without the legal issues, there are *very very very* few doctors in the US who will do late term abortions. Like a handful, in the entire country. And so you have to add in all sorts of other factors (stress of travel, economic issues, etc.) and the fact that it's just a more complicated procedure.

One of those topics where there are very few easy answers.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2013, 01:20:25 pm »
Quote from: Laveth;103675
I really wish I was still shocked by these stories, it saddens me that I'm not.

 
I don't find the age issue that shocking. Plenty of girls even as young as 9 years old can be very physically mature, and in many cultures girls are married off as soon as they start menstruating. The disturbing part for me is how she was not even safe in her own home, where he would sneak in and force himself on her. The doors should have been locked, at the very least.

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2013, 01:28:35 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;104539
I don't find the age issue that shocking. Plenty of girls even as young as 9 years old can be very physically mature, and in many cultures girls are married off as soon as they start menstruating. The disturbing part for me is how she was not even safe in her own home, where he would sneak in and force himself on her. The doors should have been locked, at the very least.

 
Unlocked doors are not an excuse or an invitation for rape.
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Nyktelios

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2013, 02:02:28 pm »
Quote from: Juni;104540
Unlocked doors are not an excuse or an invitation for rape.

 
Yeah, because that's exactly what I said... :confused:

I just thought there should have been more safety measures in place to keep her secure in her own home.

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2013, 02:07:53 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;104543
Yeah, because that's exactly what I said... :confused:

I just thought there should have been more safety measures in place to keep her secure in her own home.


I realize my reply was brief and potentially ambiguous, and I apologize.

Having locked doors is not safety. Wearing the right clothes is not safety. Men not raping is safety. I recognize that you did not say "if the mother had locked the doors none of this would have happened" but it shades uncomfortably close to the 'make sure they rape the other girl' aspect of rape culture for my liking.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2013, 02:15:52 pm »
Quote from: Juni;104544
I realize my reply was brief and potentially ambiguous, and I apologize.

Having locked doors is not safety. Wearing the right clothes is not safety. Men not raping is safety. I recognize that you did not say "if the mother had locked the doors none of this would have happened" but it shades uncomfortably close to the 'make sure they rape the other girl' aspect of rape culture for my liking.

 
No, nothing to do with her home situation caused the rape . . .  On the other hand, I have to say that the reports of her home life here are also making me uncomfortable.  Something very wrong is going on if her mother didn't realize she was pregnant until she was seven months along.  I think the problem is, while it's not the potential unsafeness of her environment that caused her to be raped, it seems to have compounded the problem.  (For instance, by, as was mentioned already, making it impossible for her to have the option of an abortion.)

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 02:34:32 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;104546
No, nothing to do with her home situation caused the rape . . .  On the other hand, I have to say that the reports of her home life here are also making me uncomfortable.  Something very wrong is going on if her mother didn't realize she was pregnant until she was seven months along.  I think the problem is, while it's not the potential unsafeness of her environment that caused her to be raped, it seems to have compounded the problem.  (For instance, by, as was mentioned already, making it impossible for her to have the option of an abortion.)

 
I can't speak to the specifics of those involved, obviously, but: I have a cousin who is ten, and I think people who don't have children that age are maybe not as aware of what the physical changes of early puberty can look like. Starting last year, my cousin gained a not insignificant amount of weight- my uncle (who is unfortunately not the most sensitive) said she went and found all her missing baby fat. She is a healthy, active child, but people looking at her make other assumptions, and the places she's gained weight could easily correspond to pregnancy. Not to mention, at that age children are starting to become actively secretive from their parents.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the mother- I have no idea of the reality of their situation. And it's absolutely an unfortunate situation all around. But it's not necessarily straightforward, either.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 03:04:08 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;104543
Yeah, because that's exactly what I said... :confused:

I just thought there should have been more safety measures in place to keep her secure in her own home.

 
The trouble is, to talk about what should have been done, by anyone other than the rapist, to prevent a rape, is to slide (however inadvertently) toward the common perception that rapists are natural hazards, wild animals, not human beings with the agency to choose whether or not to rape, and that the onus of prevention must therefore be on the victims.

It's one thing to talk about how people can make themselves less vulnerable (though still problematic), given that there are despicable, predatory human beings who do use their agency to choose to rape. But in a conversation talking about rape that has already occurred, second-guessing the precautions is inevitably going to smack of victim-blaming even if that's not the intent.

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2013, 03:47:07 pm »
Quote from: Juni;104548
I can't speak to the specifics of those involved, obviously, but: I have a cousin who is ten, and I think people who don't have children that age are maybe not as aware of what the physical changes of early puberty can look like. Starting last year, my cousin gained a not insignificant amount of weight- my uncle (who is unfortunately not the most sensitive) said she went and found all her missing baby fat. She is a healthy, active child, but people looking at her make other assumptions, and the places she's gained weight could easily correspond to pregnancy. Not to mention, at that age children are starting to become actively secretive from their parents.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the mother- I have no idea of the reality of their situation. And it's absolutely an unfortunate situation all around. But it's not necessarily straightforward, either.

 
Lots of factors.  The girl could have been a bit heavy to begin with, perhaps making the consequential weight gain less noteworthy.  If she's shy about her body she could be favoring baggy clothes.  If she hadn't yet started her regular menses, well there goes a very reliable indicator.  
And consider that a pregnant 11 year-old will not look much like a pregnant 20 year-old.  I read elsewhere that the baby is expected to weigh maybe 5 1/2 pounds.  That's tiny.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2013, 03:52:48 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;104539
I don't find the age issue that shocking. Plenty of girls even as young as 9 years old can be very physically mature, and in many cultures girls are married off as soon as they start menstruating. The disturbing part for me is how she was not even safe in her own home, where he would sneak in and force himself on her. The doors should have been locked, at the very least.

 
Do we know if he "sneaked" in, or did the girl let him in?  Or more specifically, did he talk the girl into letting him into the house against the mother's wishes or did he have to force the door open against the girl trying to keep it closed with her body? Or was it something in-between?

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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 04:03:47 pm »
Quote from: sailor;104553
Do we know if he "sneaked" in, or did the girl let him in?  Or more specifically, did he talk the girl into letting him into the house against the mother's wishes or did he have to force the door open against the girl trying to keep it closed with her body? Or was it something in-between?

 
The link in the OP says the perp snuck in through the back door.  Although that she begged him repeatedly to stop with the assaults.  It's possible there was just so much fear there that the girl couldn't really think of keeping him out.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2013, 02:50:44 am »
Quote from: Juni;104544
I realize my reply was brief and potentially ambiguous, and I apologize.

Having locked doors is not safety. Wearing the right clothes is not safety. Men not raping is safety. I recognize that you did not say "if the mother had locked the doors none of this would have happened" but it shades uncomfortably close to the 'make sure they rape the other girl' aspect of rape culture for my liking.

 
I just want to nudge in, additionally, especially when we're talking about kids, is people not raping is safety.  Statistically the majority of rapes are perpetrated by men, absolutely absolutely true, and also, I see too many people living under the illusion that women don't also sometimes perpetrate rape or abuse, and that narrative goes bad places--like not noticing abuse in lesbian communities, or making a space "safe" by getting rid of men (or trans women) as though women are always, axiomatically safe.  Locking a door doesn't help if it's the kid's parent perpetrating, for instance.  So much of rape is about power differentials, and kids don't have power over much of anyone.
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Re: 21-Year-old Man impregnates 11-year-old girl
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2013, 05:55:44 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;104550
The trouble is, to talk about what should have been done, by anyone other than the rapist, to prevent a rape, is to slide (however inadvertently) toward the common perception that rapists are natural hazards, wild animals, not human beings with the agency to choose whether or not to rape, and that the onus of prevention must therefore be on the victims.


I completely agree with this.  I don`t care if I walk into a bar in a bikini, smelling and looking as sexy and vulnerable as hell, that doesn`t give anyone permission to have sex with me against my will.  When you start talking about precautions (although necessary, thanks to the world we live in and lack of willingness for society as a whole to change our culture so that rape is unacceptable on a basic level), you do start making it the victims fault if something does occur.  And the argument has definetly been made by guys before that "she was practically asking for it" because she did this or because she did that or dressed this or that way (the "look what you made me do" defense).  But, none of that matters because if the girl says "no" it means "no" and no one should be fool enough to violate that.  It becomes even trickier in the case of children, though, because many times they don`t know they have the right to refuse (due to coercian or threats and the like).  Not that the perp would necessarily listen anyway.

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