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Author Topic: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?  (Read 14513 times)

Liadine (dragonflyeyes)

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2012, 03:14:52 am »
Quote from: NibbleKat;67803
And I can't tell if it's an actual response from this deity or if I'm responding to her with my own fears and learned behavior put on me by my father as a child that's muddying up what should be clear waters. I think I'm screwing up with my own terror of not being a Good Child, so my idea of 'worship' is getting warped.


There are some interesting discussions happening over on the Mystery-Builders SIG about how to discern what's coming from deity/what's coming from yourself - you might have seen them already since this is a few days old now, but I know I've found them useful myself.
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Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2012, 03:28:24 am »
Quote from: Crohm;67493
I do not see the negative connotation with the term worship, that others do.  Perhaps, it is because they have a resentment towards their birth faith they have not moved passed.

I think that way too - I have no problem with the term 'worship'. Your description of how worship involves your entire life is beautiful, and sums up the concept entirely. I honour the gods at my shrine every day, but I think worship goes beyond that.
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Nachtigall

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2012, 06:45:38 am »
Quote from: Starglade;1265
So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?

 
I worship, and I kneel before my altar (the latter is reserved for my private devotions to Apollon only though, not so much for traditional celebrations).

I don't work with deities - They are not my employers or colleagues. Our relationship is not equal - They are Gods, after all, while I am not. It doesn't make me unworthy, far from it, but this inequality is here, and it has to be acknowledged.

Now, I was never a very devoted Christian, but I did partake a lot in various LHP paths, especially Satanism. The attitude towards worship there is, of course, very negative, implying that no self-respecting person would ever do it, and no deity worth respect would ever want it.

Then, moving towards... other religious path and undergoing some kind of personal transformation, I had to get rid of some old thinking patterns, spiritual and otherwise - so, using the word "worship" to define my relationships with deities was actually uncomfortable at first - and hence, powerful.

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2012, 11:40:42 am »
Quote from: Liadine (dragonflyeyes);68459
There are some interesting discussions happening over on the Mystery-Builders SIG about how to discern what's coming from deity/what's coming from yourself - you might have seen them already since this is a few days old now, but I know I've found them useful myself.

 
Actually, I hadn't seen them. Thank you for the tip!
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Ladywhitewolf

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2012, 11:00:26 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;59020
For me it's a mix of "respectfully working with" and "honoring" the gods. I don't worship them in the sense that I consider myself lesser to them. I did that with Aengus Og for a while, but he kept pointing out that this mentality was tied to my issues and it wasn't an appropriate way to work with him at all.


 The term I use is honor.  I find the term worship not  to my liking.   Also  I use the term "working with" to describe my relationship to them.  I also don't consider myself any lesser compared to my deities.
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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 05:09:00 am »
Quote from: Starglade;1265
So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?


I worship.
I believe that my Gods and many other Ghosts and forces are around me.
I know, that they are all out of the Nature around me.

I don´t "work with" them.
I don´t pray in words.

Just live with them around me and I trust, that they follow my life and be there to guide my life. I try to get my life in a balance to that power.
Yours
Nymeria

Atheris

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2012, 02:01:06 pm »
Quote from: SeaShine;5083

That said, I don't grovel or debase myself.  I also don't "work with" them as if we are equals, or "honor" them is if I were doing them a favor.  

But that's just how I see it, I know others have different interpretations.


I grew up Baptist and for them worship meant reminding God just how great and loving and "awesome" he was and how lowly we scumbag sinners really were. (BTW, Catholics do this too)

If I "worshiped" the Mother Goddess that way, she'd bitch-slap me something silly! :eek:  
That is not what she is about. My relationship with her is more along the line of teacher-student.

Materialist

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2012, 03:34:19 pm »
Quote from: Starglade;1381
You nailed part of it right there: For me, it's the difference between the being as deity and the being as--not-deity. Bodhisattvas aren't deities. Buddha's not a deity.

The waters of Buddhism get very muddy in this regard, however. I wish I could find the reference, and the fact that I can't could be due to it being a generalization I drew from lots of reading on the matter, but anyway--It seems accurate to say that the more "learned" a practitioner is, the less likely s/he is to "worship the Buddha" or "worship White Tara" or whoever. The more study one has done, the more likely one is to realize and understand that these beings are NOT gods or goddesses per se (and here it gets muddy on another front, because there ARE Nepalese deities, f'ex, that have been integrated into Buddhism in that locale), but are understood--and "best" approached--as "emanations of the Buddha nature." The less educated one is, the more likely one is to see the requisite actions as "worship." (I'll keep digging for where I got this from. I swear, it's not out of my own head, I got it from somewhere else and it made sense to me.)

A deity by its very nature commands worship of some kind, IMO. The nature of that worship may be simple or complex, personal or communal, etc. This is likely a holdover from my own JCI-shaped childhood (Protestant, Dutch Reformed, family instrumental in founding a congregation in N IL, etc etc yadda yadda), but it's where I come down. Not to say I can't understand someone saying "I don't worship Thor, but I work with him." I can understand it. I do think that as you say, there's so much mental baggage associated with that one word, people do whatever necessary to NOT use it if it makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason.

There's also a sense, to me, of supplication, of asking for help, involved in worship. The actions of honoring Buddha or a bodhisattva aren't so much asking for something, as working to bring one's self into alignment with them--to move closer to Buddhanature, to enlightenment by following the path associated with that particular being. I'm still exploring this and am far from being any kind of expert whatsoever, but it's my understanding so I'm sharing it. If I chant the Praises of the 21 Taras, I'm working toward understanding their various natures and incorporating those into myself. If I perform a Medicine Buddha ritual, I'm drawing on the healing power manifested by that emanation to use it either on myself or someone else. It's not so much about "OMG, I'm in trouble, HELP MEEEEEE" as it is about "I want to be come more like you, so I'm performing X repetitions of this mantra and Y number of prostrations to help me channel your essence into myself."

Your description of Vajrayana reminds me of my own path. I don't worship anything either, though my way is heavily influenced polytheistic reconstructionism. To me, the nonexistence of gods is a fact of nature. If Thor does exist, he'll turn out to be a brother thunder spirit or something.

I feel I'm leaning toward Rokkatru, which focuses on jotuns and land spirits-personalized aspects of nature. As you described aligning yourself with bodhisattvas, I try to be in harmony with the different functions of the ecosystem I live in.

Also, everything is a created being, even hypothetical gods. Why would I worship something that's been co-evolving on this planet with everyone else? Does anyone worship Archaeans because they're the oldest life forms? Doubtful.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:45:45 pm by Fausta »

cletus90851

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2016, 01:38:52 pm »
Quote from: Starglade;1265
This jumps off from the "Who do you work with" thread elsewhere, which Sage started over the weekend. In my response there I explained that as a Vajrayana Buddhist, I don't "worship" in the sense that most folks use that term. I honor, yes, I venerate, yes--but I don't worship.

I don't supplicate. I don't pray for guidance, or assistance, or what have you. I chant, to align myself more completely with a given emanation of Buddha (be that one of the 21 Taras, or Avalokiteshvara, or Medicine Buddha, or another). I chant, to focus and center myself in a place of calm. I light candles and/or incense, to honor Buddha's gift of the Dharma. I light a candle for HHDL, the incarnation of Avalokiteshvara and the head of Tibetan Buddhists around the world.

But don't tell me I worship. I know what worship feels like--and this ain't it, as they say.

So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?

Personally I have never had an issue with the term worship.  I agree that peoples negative perceptions most often stem from certain religions using it as a beat-down tool, however.

as for ''working with'' or ''worshipping'' it all depends on the context.  I personally use ''worked with''  sometimes too.  usially to describe interaction with a deity I have not asked for much from, but I do worship them as well.

Moonstone

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2016, 03:41:07 pm »
Quote from: Starglade;1265
This jumps off from the "Who do you work with" thread elsewhere, which Sage started over the weekend. In my response there I explained that as a Vajrayana Buddhist, I don't "worship" in the sense that most folks use that term. I honor, yes, I venerate, yes--but I don't worship.

I don't supplicate. I don't pray for guidance, or assistance, or what have you. I chant, to align myself more completely with a given emanation of Buddha (be that one of the 21 Taras, or Avalokiteshvara, or Medicine Buddha, or another). I chant, to focus and center myself in a place of calm. I light candles and/or incense, to honor Buddha's gift of the Dharma. I light a candle for HHDL, the incarnation of Avalokiteshvara and the head of Tibetan Buddhists around the world.

But don't tell me I worship. I know what worship feels like--and this ain't it, as they say.

So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?

 
I believe that the gods a sort of very powerful spirit. Therefore I would say I "venerate" rather than worship in the same way that I "venerate" nature spirits and my ancestors. I don't view the gods as almighty superior beings that are better than we mere mortals. They are just powerful in a different way.

Cinder

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2017, 11:04:04 am »
Quote from: Starglade;1265
So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?


I usually use the term "work with", but I disagree with the views shared in this thread that using this term equates to the person considering themselves equal to the gods (or lacking the proper respect). I do not consider myself an equal to the gods and I respect them whole-heartedly.

I'm going through the Kemetic Orthodoxy beginner's class and it's making me think about the term "worship". I'm not uncomfortable with the word due to my Catholic upbringing, I'm uncomfortable with it because it feels like cracking open my ribs and laying my heart before the gods. Personally, there's an inherent vulnerability to the term "worship" that there isn't in "work with".

I want to work toward being able to honestly say I worship my gods, but I don't think I'll ever come to a point where it feels dishonest to say I work with them. I hope that makes sense :)

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2017, 09:54:08 pm »
Quote from: Cinder;205421

I'm going through the Kemetic Orthodoxy beginner's class and it's making me think about the term "worship". I'm not uncomfortable with the word due to my Catholic upbringing, I'm uncomfortable with it because it feels like cracking open my ribs and laying my heart before the gods. Personally, there's an inherent vulnerability to the term "worship" that there isn't in "work with".


You've pretty much described my relationship with Set here ... including the heart imagery. It can be disconcerting at times :) I've found though, that while some authoritarian religious groups connect "worship" with fear, my own feelings of worship are built on trust instead. Vulnerability, like you said.

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Re: Worship? Honor? Venerate? What?
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2017, 11:14:51 am »
So--what do YOU do? How do you define your interactions with the divine, for lack of a more comprehensive term?

1. Prayer, chanting mantras and ślokāḥ: verses from scriptures or poetry in praise of the gods, listen to and sing bhajans, devotional songs;
offerings: incense, food/sweets, water, flame from an oil lamp;
2. I try to keep my ego and emotions in check (not always successful); be kind to everyone and everything;
3. I try to live a dharmic life (Bhagavad Gita 12.13-14);
4. Always think of God to eventually go to him (Bhagavad Gita 18.65-66).

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