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Author Topic: Primordial reality?  (Read 319 times)

EnderDragonFire

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Primordial reality?
« on: December 29, 2018, 06:48:19 am »
I was wondering how various religious traditions address, or don't address, the concept of primordial reality. The question of 'what came before' the ordered world we know now is one that people have been trying to answer for a rather long time.

The Greek Theogony posits the existence of a singular, primordial diety called Chaos; the the Babylonians, the first Gods were Tiamat and Abzu; the Norse may have believed in Ginnungagap, a great primordial void at the dawn of time.

Many such stories and myths exist across the world; what does your tradition say about the state of the universe before the creation of the current world?
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Sefiru

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Re: Primordial reality?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 05:46:35 pm »
Many such stories and myths exist across the world; what does your tradition say about the state of the universe before the creation of the current world?

Well, Kemetic cosmology has the primordial ocean, Nun, in which sort of everything exists but nothing exists, because there's no differentiation between one thing and another. I'm not explaining this very well. Everything that exists emerged from Nun, so it gets invoked in Kemetic rituals as a source of creation.

Even though the primordial state is usually said to exist before the existent world, I associate Nun with the future, since the future does not yet exist.

Riothamus12

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Re: Primordial reality?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 01:46:34 pm »
I was wondering how various religious traditions address, or don't address, the concept of primordial reality. The question of 'what came before' the ordered world we know now is one that people have been trying to answer for a rather long time.

The Greek Theogony posits the existence of a singular, primordial diety called Chaos; the the Babylonians, the first Gods were Tiamat and Abzu; the Norse may have believed in Ginnungagap, a great primordial void at the dawn of time.

Many such stories and myths exist across the world; what does your tradition say about the state of the universe before the creation of the current world?

Mine is rather boring compared to many. It posits that the physical universe as well as the Spirit world very likely always existed in some form. It may not have a beginning or end as mortals often conceive of it. If this universe did have a beginning it's likely just another incarnation in a long series of iterations. If it did "begin", it likely went something like this. In the beginning there was Dryghten and everything flowed from them as a the logical end result of their existence. Then it's pretty much the scientific understanding of how things began from there except for the part where humans suddenly appeared, threw some stuff out of balance and thus we're now dealing with problems which it is our responsibility to clean since our early ancestors caused them and then their descendants up to the present day have chosen to perpetuate them.

Though it should also be noted, that the primordial reality never really went away. It's all pervasive. When one sends their consciousness out into the Spirit world they are experiencing a more primordial reality. What I call the Xarthic mind or if you prefer, higher self is constantly aware of this and can see this reality more clearly as it is. The Xarthic mind is human consciousness in a more spiritually aware form. To someone tuned into it, the sight of such things can seem shockingly mundane, but rapturously beautiful once one retains to a more "normal" state of mind. It is to one who is in what many would call a normal state of consciousness, very strange and complex, a massive vortex of energies and forces wandered by Spirits with a landscape that shifts and yet has a recognizable geography, but this geography will also appear differently to do different beings depending on what they're used to, for each soul tunes into these things in a fashion that varies. When experiencing it when tuned into the Xarthic mind, it sort of feels that this is how it always is, because really, that is how it always is, it's just that were not normally consciously aware of it. Such a thing isn't exactly a stretch. When people talk about their religions cosmology, they are talking about things as they always are, but they aren't always keenly tuned into.

For example, for a Christian, when they talk about God being in Heaven, the devil being in Hell, and there being Angels and various malign forces, in that vision of the cosmos, that is how it always is, they just aren't constantly in contact with such things.

Click it or something.It just seemed like it would be fun to toy around with.

Jainarayan

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Re: Primordial reality?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 10:27:38 am »
...what does your tradition say about the state of the universe before the creation of the current world?

Have you seen the Nasadiya Sukta (lit. "Hymn [of] Not the Non-existent") of the Rig Veda? It would make many traditions' heads explode because it questions creation. It's one of my favorites. Very trippy!  ;D

Then even nothingness was not, nor existence, nā́sad āsīn nó sád āsīt tadā́nīṃ closer to "then [there was] neither existence nor non-existence".
There was no air then, nor the heavens beyond it.
What covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping?
Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed?
10.129.1

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?"
10.129.6

Whence all creation had its origin,
the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows — or maybe even he does not know.
10.129.7
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Primordial reality?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 12:30:15 pm »
Have you seen the Nasadiya Sukta (lit. "Hymn [of] Not the Non-existent") of the Rig Veda? It would make many traditions' heads explode because it questions creation. It's one of my favorites. Very trippy!

Yep. Things like that are a large part of what draws me to Hinduism. It leaves lots of room for questioning and uncertainty.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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