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Author Topic: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism  (Read 3959 times)

Zaphaux

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Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« on: November 18, 2012, 10:32:54 am »
What's so dangerous about knowledge that religions like Christianity despise so much?
 First, at Genesis, God put the Tree of Knowledge, and tell Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Then it comes the snake (symbol of the knowledge and wisdom) and tells eve to eat from the tree. They do, and God bans them from the Garden of Eden. Also, I'm pretty sure in some parts of the bible God himself says that knowledge will be destroyed, and other things like it.

 Do you think that christianity promotes ignorance in a shameless way?

 Also, there is that illustration of Saint Mary crushing the head of the serpent
http://www.irmasgracianas.com.br/portal/images/stories/nossa-senhora-da-medalha-milagrosa-1.jpg

 I don't know, but if Lucifer/Satan's called the "god of the lie", how can he be the "god of the knowledge"? Is the Christian God the true devil, god of ignorance, therefore god of lie?

victoreia

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Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 11:10:32 am »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81405
What's so dangerous about knowledge that religions like Christianity despise so much?
 First, at Genesis, God put the Tree of Knowledge, and tell Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Then it comes the snake (symbol of the knowledge and wisdom) and tells eve to eat from the tree. They do, and God bans them from the Garden of Eden. Also, I'm pretty sure in some parts of the bible God himself says that knowledge will be destroyed, and other things like it.

 Do you think that christianity promotes ignorance in a shameless way?

 Also, there is that illustration of Saint Mary crushing the head of the serpent
http://www.irmasgracianas.com.br/portal/images/stories/nossa-senhora-da-medalha-milagrosa-1.jpg

 I don't know, but if Lucifer/Satan's called the "god of the lie", how can he be the "god of the knowledge"? Is the Christian God the true devil, god of ignorance, therefore god of lie?

Well, my first thought is that the PTB do promote ignorance, because it's much easier to control people who don't question them. I once read an observation that there was a reason the people were referred to as sheep--sheep as more easily herded, as opposed to (in this example) goats.

As I recall things (admittedly fuzzily), the bible is full of contradictions. I mean, it says "love thy neighbor", but there's one story in the old testament that relates how a man offered up his daughters to Roman soldiers in order to distraction them from the guy he was hiding from the soldiers. (Even as a child, I had a problem with that, and that was before I knew about rape.)
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

We are star stuff. We are the universe, made manifest. --Ambassador Delenn, Babylon 5

Maps

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 12:51:52 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81405
What's so dangerous about knowledge that religions like Christianity despise so much?
 First, at Genesis, God put the Tree of Knowledge, and tell Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Then it comes the snake (symbol of the knowledge and wisdom) and tells eve to eat from the tree. They do, and God bans them from the Garden of Eden. Also, I'm pretty sure in some parts of the bible God himself says that knowledge will be destroyed, and other things like it.

 Do you think that christianity promotes ignorance in a shameless way?

 Also, there is that illustration of Saint Mary crushing the head of the serpent
http://www.irmasgracianas.com.br/portal/images/stories/nossa-senhora-da-medalha-milagrosa-1.jpg

 I don't know, but if Lucifer/Satan's called the "god of the lie", how can he be the "god of the knowledge"? Is the Christian God the true devil, god of ignorance, therefore god of lie?

 
Because institutions like staying in power. See also: governments, big businesses, schools (also found under "big businesses"), etc.

MordredRedeemed

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 12:56:27 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81405

 Do you think that christianity promotes ignorance in a shameless way?

 
Yes. One of the reasons i left.
I have heard factual accounts of people not believing in dinosaurs. They have said that god put the fossils there to "Test our faith" about the world only being 3000 or so years old. And the whole "God hates gays thing" makes me facepalm hard enough to get a slight headache, when we've pretty much established that it is caused by genetics.

Why would god gift us with reasoning and then put that stuff there to screw with us?

I don't mean to bash it entirely, as there are some good things that come out of it, but yes, it is a religion that seems to celebrate and promote ignorance.
Be excellent to each other, and party on dudes.

sailor

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 01:08:22 pm »
Quote from: victoreia;81407

As I recall things (admittedly fuzzily), the bible is full of contradictions. I mean, it says "love thy neighbor", but there's one story in the old testament that relates how a man offered up his daughters to Roman soldiers in order to distraction them from the guy he was hiding from the soldiers. (Even as a child, I had a problem with that, and that was before I knew about rape.)

 
You really mangled that story. He offered up his daughter to be raped by his neighbors to prevent them from raping the important visiting men who had come under his protection. It was about 2500 years before the Roman empire.

Aisling

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 01:11:50 pm »
Quote from: MordredRedeemed;81428

I have heard factual accounts of people not believing in dinosaurs.


Phht, that's nothing.  How about an entire museum dedicated to the notion that evolution is a lie: Creation Museum?

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Aster Breo

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Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 01:14:44 pm »
Quote from: sailor;81430
You really mangled that story. He offered up his daughter to be raped by his neighbors to prevent them from raping the important visiting men who had come under his protection. It was about 2500 years before the Roman empire.

I think the point was the endorsement of rape.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

mandrina

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 01:48:32 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;81433
I think the point was the endorsement of rape.

it wasn't specifically the endorsement of rape, it was the under the rules of hospitality, etc, he had to protect these important male visitors at all costs.  The crowd wanted to rape them, so Lot offered his daughters instead.  The crowd refused, the visitors revealed themselves as angels, defended the family and they all escaped.
 
it's more the endorsement of the idea that your daughters are your possessions.  which was pretty darn standard for the day.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 01:49:16 pm by mandrina »
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Zaphaux

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 02:01:54 pm »
Quote from: victoreia;81407
Well, my first thought is that the PTB do promote ignorance, because it's much easier to control people who don't question them. I once read an observation that there was a reason the people were referred to as sheep--sheep as more easily herded, as opposed to (in this example) goats.

[...]

As I recall things (admittedly fuzzily), the bible is full of contradictions. [...] Even as a child, I had a problem with that, and that was before I knew about rape.
Liked the sheep thing, makes sense.
 I think that deep ignorance and mind-closing is a thing we develop with the age, little children doesn't have that. I used to question lots of things about the bible when I was little, and my parents just explained me on an even more ignorant way, and I grew up thinking that every religion sucked that way, until I was a little more grown and started to close my mind and fear God. Although, I became atheist later because of it all, and then I discovered the oriental religions and how they are all completely different than the Christianism, and at least reasonable. Little by little I was oppening my mind and discovered the reason that was also behind the Occult and pagan religions.
 
Quote from: Maps;81425
Because institutions like staying in power. See also: governments, big businesses, schools (also found under "big businesses"), etc.
I see the Christian religions as a way that the states found to control population on the past years (and even today, but "thanks god" the law nowadays is not the religion, although they still control the mentality of big part of the population, the Christians, yet). If I was more conspirational, I could say that Christianity was created to take people away from the magic (the Anti-Knowledge and Anti-Magic part of it), but I'm not that extremist to think this way.
 
Quote from: MordredRedeemed;81428
Yes. One of the reasons i left.
I have heard factual accounts of people not believing in dinosaurs. They have said that god put the fossils there to "Test our faith" about the world only being 3000 or so years old. And the whole "God hates gays thing" makes me facepalm hard enough to get a slight headache, when we've pretty much established that it is caused by genetics.

Why would god gift us with reasoning and then put that stuff there to screw with us?

I don't mean to bash it entirely, as there are some good things that come out of it, but yes, it is a religion that seems to celebrate and promote ignorance.
Have heard similar things about the dinosaurs, but from the people I heard it they said that it is devil that is going to the past and putting fossils so people believe in evolution and dinosaurs. It's terrible.
 
Quote from: Aisling;81431
Phht, that's nothing.  How about an entire museum dedicated to the notion that evolution is a lie: Creation Museum?

:hdsk:
Wow. I thought that there was enough ignorance in this world, then I get this.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 02:04:30 pm by Zaphaux »

Aster Breo

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Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 02:30:46 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;81439

it's more the endorsement of the idea that your daughters are your possessions.  which was pretty darn standard for the day.

Which is what rape -- as a property crime -- was about.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Valentine

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 03:59:58 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81441
If I was more conspirational, I could say that Christianity was created to take people away from the magic (the Anti-Knowledge and Anti-Magic part of it), but I'm not that extremist to think this way.

 
Christianity was in fact created by poor people who were living under the oppressive thumb of the occupying Roman empire.  It was not invented to shore up state power, it came about through questioning of, and resistance to, state power.
Yes, it has since been used to back up and justify state power and oppression in many times and places, but it is not factual to suggest that is its origin or core.  It has been the backbone of many oppressive and hegemonic structures in the last two millennia, but it has also been the backbone of numerous liberatory and social-justice movements, especially because of its radical content on economics.
You can be as conspiratorial as you like, but it really is just a mystery-cult offshoot of Judaism that managed to get very successful.  (In part, it is important to note, by getting hitched to imperial power under Constantine.  That is also factual, and something a lot of Christians bemoan.  But it's not where the religion "came from.")

Out of curiosity:  would you suggest that Judaism is also "anti-knowledge"?  Adam and Eve, after all, and the entire so-called "Old Testament," are Jewish documents repurposed by Christians, not Christian documents to begin with.
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Zaphaux

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2012, 04:14:26 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;81462
Christianity was in fact created by poor people who were living under the oppressive thumb of the occupying Roman empire.  It was not invented to shore up state power, it came about through questioning of, and resistance to, state power.
Yes, it has since been used to back up and justify state power and oppression in many times and places, but it is not factual to suggest that is its origin or core.  It has been the backbone of many oppressive and hegemonic structures in the last two millennia, but it has also been the backbone of numerous liberatory and social-justice movements, especially because of its radical content on economics.
You can be as conspiratorial as you like, but it really is just a mystery-cult offshoot of Judaism that managed to get very successful.  (In part, it is important to note, by getting hitched to imperial power under Constantine.  That is also factual, and something a lot of Christians bemoan.  But it's not where the religion "came from.")

Out of curiosity:  would you suggest that Judaism is also "anti-knowledge"?  Adam and Eve, after all, and the entire so-called "Old Testament," are Jewish documents repurposed by Christians, not Christian documents to begin with.

 I know really too little about Judaism, but it have always sounded like something similar to Christianity. To give you an idea, I have never met a jewish in my whole life D: the only thing I know about them is that they don't eat meat unless it's from fish.

 But if the old testament are Jewish documents, I'd say yes. Mostly because the old testament is the most ~sick~ part of the bible. The God of the new testament seems like a totally different god.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 04:16:21 pm by Zaphaux »

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 04:17:13 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81464
I know really too little about Judaism, but it have always sounded like something similar to Christianity.


No.

Quote
the only thing I know about them is that they don't eat meat unless it's from fish.

 
Also incorrect.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Zaphaux

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2012, 04:23:49 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;81465
No.

 Also incorrect.

 Well, this proves that I know really too little about judaism.

Valentine

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Re: Religions against knowledge, snakes and Satanism
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2012, 04:33:56 pm »
Quote from: Zaphaux;81464
I know really too little about Judaism, but it have always sounded like something similar to Christianity. To give you an idea, I have never met a jewish in my whole life D: the only thing I know about them is that they don't eat meat unless it's from fish.

 But if the old testament are Jewish documents, I'd say yes. Mostly because the old testament is the most ~sick~ part of the bible. The God of the new testament seems like a totally different god.

 
I think before you make sweeping pronouncements about other religions, it might behoove you to do a little homework.

Here, I'll help you start: it is not "if."  The "Old Testament," as many Christians call it, is all Jewish scripture.  (It is not all of Jewish scripture, there is more to be had, but it is all Jewish.)  Jesus--you may have heard of him--and all of his early followers were Jews.  At the time, Jews were a persecuted people living under the power of an occupying Roman imperial government.
Christianity originated as a sect within Judaism, and then eventually started taking in non-Jews and spreading further in the world.  The "New Testament" is so called because it was added onto existing Jewish scripture by followers of Jesus.

I think Wikipedia will be of help to you, to move on from those bare bones.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
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